Scamming seller used fake tracking number, PayPal automatically sides with scammer, twice.

[Dimeron]

Here is what happened. eBay seller sends out a fake package with speedpak tracking number. The item is send to my city in Canada, but not to my address on file. I have confirmed this with Canada Post. I open up a claim, and after few days, I was informed PayPal ruled in favor of the seller. Apparently, according to PayPal agent, as long as there is a tracking number that shows something has been delivered to the same Canadian city, PayPal will automatically side with the seller. Actual address is NOT checked, item is considered delivered as long as it is the same city. So I appeal, and provide my communications with Canada post, along with explicit request to get proof from seller that the item is shipped to my PayPal address on file. 12 hours later, I got the exact same message again, PayPal ruled in sellers favor because tracking shows the item has been delivered to my city. There are no new seller response in the case, and apparently none of my messages or evidence is even looked at. Now I need to spend even more time to call up paypal tommorow, and possibly just have the same thing happen again. (I.e have my evidence ignored and case automatically dismissed). How do I deal with this? Can I get someone at PayPal to actually look at my evidence and get proof of correct delivery from the seller, or should I just go do a credit card charge back. Thanks.

[PierDS95]

I've managed to defend on the first try.

I have been a victim of the fake tracking scam with UPS (which takes advantage of the fact that the full address does not appear in the tracking), but I won the claim on the first try, and so know that you can defend yourself. I gathered a lot of information about this, so I defended myself in every way I read to be effective immediately, to avoid where to reopen the file later.

In my case, the tracking provided by the scammer was prior to payment, and in talking to PayPal on Facebook, they told me that it is evidence that would almost certainly guarantee me winning the claim. So if you realize it's a scam in time (I verified by creating a second Subito.it account with which I caught him when he disappeared), start the dispute, don't wait. Doing so will force the scammer to get tracking (apparently they buy them from the deep web) that is inconsistent with the date of payment.
I'm not sure if it was just the fact of the date that I won the appeal, as I provided in the PayPal claim (via a text file with a YouTube link in it) the recording of the call to UPS (it's perfectly legal in Italy, since you don't distribute the recording publicly), where the operator dictated the true address of that tracking (not all operators do this, but just confirm to you that your address in the PayPal payment was not the recipient of the shipment), and then I attached as a PDF the e-mail conversation with UPS itself (which I initiated from the website dedicated to e-mail contacts) where the operator confirmed verbatim that the tracking I gave him was not intended for the address nor the name I wrote down (i.e., mine in the PayPal payment).
As an additional scruple, I provided a video in which I framed the house number and doorbells of my house, pointing out that none of them had the last name of the signer of the tracking provided by the scammer.

Know that those who lost the claim in the first instance (it can happen since it seems PayPal uses an automated system that analyzes the tracking), solved it by re-contacting PayPal on Facebook where they are super helpful, or by calling them by phone explaining it all thoroughly. Be sure though, having confirmations from UPS (or FedEx if the scammer used that) can be crucial, to give concrete proof to PayPal staff.

[RevolioClockJr]

In my case I bought something from a web store so the tracking would not have appeared before payment anyway

[Temp20230411k]

I have a more larger problem then Yours- was buy in Ebay item and dont recived the refound from Paypal- my fake tracking number is from FEDEX, and they confirming to me via mail that package was not sended to me and even not to my adess, but the paypal wants to official paper from them. When I've ask FEDEX- they send to me mail, that the mail is the official form to them. That's all. Opening the dispute on 4th time, but still paypal is closing. My package was sended even before I've placed an order, the seller (on ebay - the thieft - was told, it was accidentally placed number - and still ebay don't see the problem), the account seller on ebay was hacked - paypal not seeing the problem at all. I've totally disapointed this situation. 

[bo0gie]

I had a similar experience recently. My wife tried to buy a treadmill from a seller, they supplied us with a verified tracking number, but it was listed as left in the mailbox and the delivery date was before the date of purchase. You can't leave a treadmill in a mailbox, or deliver it before it's ordered. I brought it up with PayPal for a refund, because obvious scam is obvious, and they denied the refund. I wasted no time and issued a chargeback and was granted it with the evidence presented.

And then PayPal sent me a quasi-dirty email, after they already denied my claim, seemingly blaming me and being mad at me for getting my money back.

[kernowlass]

@bo0gie 

'Paypal is just a payment processor that gives you 'some' buyer and 'some' seller protection.
So disputes for non receipt of item are mostly automated. Seller provides tracking that shows delivery = seller wins.
So then its your turn to do some work to assist Paypal in recovering your purchase price from your seller.

I know you now have your refund from your bank or card but this is what you should normally do......................

Firstly ring Paypal customer services and tell them that the number is fake or that the item was shown as shipped before you purchased it. With that information they may well just issue you a refund.

Secondly if they don't then... APPEAL
To submit an appeal on the dispute that was closed, PayPal asks that you obtain a detailed report from the shipper/courier (on their letterhead or some other form of official stationary) that includes the address the seller gave them for the shipment. Or one that includes a statement mentioning your address and saying the item was delivered to a different address. THEY DON'T HAVE TO SAY WHICH ADDRESS IT WAS SENT TO, JUST THAT IT WAS NOT DELIVERED TO YOUR ADDRESS.

Check tracking in below link to see where it went.
https://www.17track.net/en

When you have that, contact PayPal via phone (log on to your account and click contact at the bottom of the page, or via Facebook (send a Private Message to PayPal) or via Twitter (send a Direct Message to @AskPayPal) and say you want to appeal the denial of the dispute based on the shipper saying the item was delivered to a different address. Once it's submitted (you will be provided with directions on how to do that), the dispute will be reviewed further and a determination will be made.

[bo0gie]

Uhhm, no. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of hoops to get my money back on an obvious scam where I presented the evidence of such scam up front and was denied. I'm not going to appeal and waste more time. I went to the source and showed them the evidence and they said "Yep, fraud." and refunded me immediately. PayPal can be as mad as they want to be about the chargeback fee, but they could have made it right immediately, and didn't.

PayPal lost their case when they could see that the tracking ID for the product was .05 ounces and delivered to "my" mailbox 4 days before I ordered the product. .... and they denied my claim.

[kernowlass]

@bo0gie 

No problem, if your card issuer helped you then that's fine.

I was only showing you how to get a paypal refund.

As I said disputes for non receipt are automated so you need to do your bit to get a refund.

If you don't want to do that and got it via a card chargeback then fine, I was only giving you another option if you wanted paypal help.

So, you're welcome. 

[bo0gie]

Maybe you shouldn't reply to things with canned responses that you obviously aren't reading.

[kernowlass]

@bo0gie 

Strange that the response I posted that I individualise when needed has helped hundreds of folks get their money back and I have the messages of thanks and kudos for doing so.

But then they are nice folks that say thank you.

Not to worry have added you to the list to not get a response from me ever again, bye then.

[jackov903]

Two options!

Only claim through "I received an item or service that was different or not as described"!!!

Then choose "I received an empty box", this option will be in favor of the buyers. Just don't focus on the tracking, the fact is you did not get your item. Claim it this way will get your refund immediately!!!

If you claimed through "I haven’t received the item or service", the Paypal system will ask the seller for the tracking and once tracking was submitted it will be in favor of the seller no matter what if the tracking shows delivered. Your time will be wasted dealing with the Paypal system.

The second option, which is your credit card dispute. Only your credit card will provide a real person to look at your proofs, but that still costs your time.