Scamming seller used fake tracking number, PayPal automatically sides with scammer, twice.

[Dimeron]

Here is what happened. eBay seller sends out a fake package with speedpak tracking number. The item is send to my city in Canada, but not to my address on file. I have confirmed this with Canada Post. I open up a claim, and after few days, I was informed PayPal ruled in favor of the seller. Apparently, according to PayPal agent, as long as there is a tracking number that shows something has been delivered to the same Canadian city, PayPal will automatically side with the seller. Actual address is NOT checked, item is considered delivered as long as it is the same city. So I appeal, and provide my communications with Canada post, along with explicit request to get proof from seller that the item is shipped to my PayPal address on file. 12 hours later, I got the exact same message again, PayPal ruled in sellers favor because tracking shows the item has been delivered to my city. There are no new seller response in the case, and apparently none of my messages or evidence is even looked at. Now I need to spend even more time to call up paypal tommorow, and possibly just have the same thing happen again. (I.e have my evidence ignored and case automatically dismissed). How do I deal with this? Can I get someone at PayPal to actually look at my evidence and get proof of correct delivery from the seller, or should I just go do a credit card charge back. Thanks.

[jasonsele]

I appreciate the response and the steps you outline are helpful. However, I had already escalated my case by chatting with paypal on facebook after my first denial and the next day the case was denied a second time and closed because the tracking number showed delivered. I replied back to the same chat person via email and received another message that my case was approved the third time. So it looks like I will get a refund finally. However, this process is absolutely ridiculous which is why I am going to close my paypal account once the funds are returned.  The fact that you have to go through so many hoops, use an external communication process on facebook to get a reasonable response, and have repeated denials when the evidence is obvious it was a scam is just too much of a hassle. It undermines the claim that paypal offers you protections. Protections also require reasonable processes to recover your money.  I've probably spent 8 hours of my time just to recover $86 and I can bet my claim was much faster than most people have to deal with because my fake tracking number showed the product shipped before I actually ordered it. Otherwise I would have to get the statement from the USPS to prove it was fake adding more time and steps.

Paypal should allow you to appeal a claim directly from the paypal website rather than having to search message boards to find out you might be able to chat with a person on facebook. Why is that the process and why wouldn't that be explained on the paypal website? It's for one reason - Paypal wants to make it hard for you so they know it will reduce the number of claims they have to review. Paypal should also look at the explanation from the buyer rather than automatically denying claims because of delivery confirmation. Or at least use automation on the front end to confirm that the tracking number provided by the seller doesn't show shipping before the product is ordered. I also suspect the account the scammer used is still active on paypal even after they finally determined the shipping number was fake. that should be an immediate cancellation of their account. They'll just move on and create another account but paypal can make the process harder for the scammer if they reacted faster with these claims.

With a credit card purchase I can get a reversal in a 2 minute phone call. That is why I'll opt for credit card use from here on out. Anyone that requires paypal for a purchase won't get my business any more. 

[RevolioClockJr]

There are some places that only take PayPal. But that’s why I use American Express with PayPal and if I have a problem I just charge back through Amex because they are awesome about that.

I don’t give PayPal a bank account.

[Kriollo]

Add another one that was scammed in this way. After countless chats with eBay with no solution. I contacted PayPal, dispute was solved in favor of the seller twice because of the tracking number loophole. Even when I provided evidence from UPS that it was delivered to a different location and person. After about 5-6 more calls to Paypal got them to finally look at the evidence and they have then asked eBay seller to provide proof of the shipping in 5 days, which of course they won't be able to provide. If anything goes sideways I will charge back with American express. Should have done that from the beggining to be honest, huge waste of time going through eBay/PayPal Both ebay and Paypal have been useless and have been protecting the scammer, terrible experience and waste of my time

[Just_A_Name_123]

Likely PayPal will never get serious about this, unless there's legislation, a class action lawsuit,

or intervention from the FTC.   Reports to the FTC on rare occasion result in action https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds

[Travel4nutin]

I've only been saying the samething from when I was first a victim of this scam. You should have seen the amount of corporate sympathetic responses I got when I stated that. From it isn't PayPal's responsibility to how can they police that. While the simple answer to both of those things has been they used to do it in the past.

[Just_A_Name_123]

"From it isn't PayPal's responsibility to how can they police that. While the simple answer to both of those things has been they used to do it in the past."

The organizations that can fix it are USPS, FexEx and UPS.  All they'd have to do is provide an API allowing validation of the delivery address.  For example did tracking #0101010101010 go to "123 Main Street".   The privacy implications of this are pretty minor, and could be worked on to prevent privacy leaks.

Basically, with so few delivery carriers, e-validation of an actual delivery could be instant, electronic and done for every shipment.  Anyone up for a class action effort?

[RevolioClockJr]

Well it’s not necessarily something that you can look up automatically, they can verify that your address was not associated with the tracking number. Pretty sure that’s how I got my money back. They can also verify things like the size and weight of packages. Well I agree they can make things easier, it’s already transparent that the fake seller scammed you. I think it’s on PayPal not to accept fake information.

[RevolioClockJr]

It’s literally their job to police that. Not to mention that they claim to do it to keep the buyer safe.

[kernowlass]

@RevolioClockJr 

Nope they don't state that, they can't vet every seller in over 200 countries in the world that adds paypal to accept funds.

Also most of the scammers are in China and so change their names/companies as soon as word spreads that they are scams.

As for fake tracking numbers all paypal do is check that tracking shows delivery, its mostly automated so then a dispute closes.

Does not stop you appealing though, however you have to get written proof from the courier that the tracking number does not show delivery to YOUR address, many have appealed successfully that way.

[deemfin]

Scammers sent an email with a link to a phoney USPS website that accepts payment through a PayPal connection.

Dear customer 

Unfortunately, we are unable to deliver your package. Please use this link to amend your address and send a delivery fee. tracking code US9514901185421 

It's a fraud, however, I'm curious why they accept payment through PayPal.

https://scamdialer.com/complaint/scam-alert-your-parcel-us9514901185421-has-arrived/