Ripped off by buyer and Paypal is to blame.

[crenshaw]

I sold a couple of items on Ebay, this guy won, paid for the items a day later.  Nothing odd.   THEN 4 days later,  after the package has arrived at his house, he files an unauthorized payment claim and Paypal gave him the money back and I am out 2 wireless routers.  He has never responded to my emails about returning them, nor did Paypal.

How is this legal and why would Paypal do such a thing after I submitted proof that he had them in his hands?

[aaron7]

This happened to me as well.

I sold a computer via Buy It Now and the buyer paid instantly via PayPal. I sent him an email stating I couldn't ship out for my quoted flat rate costs as that was for USA only and he was in Puerto Rico which was more expensive. He said it wasn't a problem and sent an additional $10. Soon as I sent him a UPS tracking number I got a dispute email from PayPal. Turns out the guy said his roommate used his account and bought this without permission. PayPal sent him the money back and I was out a $400 computer!

[SUOteam]

We do 6 figures a year with PayPal, and I hear loud and clear everyones complains with how Buyer protective PayPal is.  And it's the truth, we lost over 4 grand last year to Chargebacks, and Paypal makes at least a menial employees salary from us a year in Fees.

The bottom line here is PayPal is only here for the buyer. The goal of PayPal is to have buyers feel safe using it, and force it upon sellers to offer it, since buyers feel secure processing through it. They also(to their credit) have made the process of checkout for the less technically skilled very easy.

This next part is for people that run buinesses and utilize paypal, it won't really apply to someone selling a few things: Become a CC Processor, handle chargebacks YOURSELF, or have a lawyer at the read to battle when need be.

These are options we now are looking into, due to the lacksidasicle attitude towards protecting SELLERS who are the ones lining the companies pockets.

[surplusdealdude]

The bottom line here is PayPal is only here for the buyer.

Strange, then, that sellers win 2/3rd of the disputes.

If you are losing a lot of disputes, either you're doing them wrong, or selling products that promote a lot of disputes, or selling to a market where there are no downsides to people filing disputes on you.

In my market, someone files a bogis dispute on me and they never deal with me again.  In the case of my proucts, there's a hefty cost to being banned from buying from me as the alternatives are much more expensive.

Perhaps you should rethink what you're doing.

[SUOteam]

First, I'd love to see that "2/3rds" figure backed up with some legitimate 3rd party proof.

2nd, selling products that promote a lot of disputes....   you mean any single consumable? What market IS there a downside for filing a dispute? Please elaborate.

What does it matter if consumer A doesn't come back for round 2? The damage is done, right?

I am rethinking what I'm doing, PayPal is a Buyers First Syetem, which I clearly outlined, with logical facts. Rather than you telling me 2/3rds of disputes end in Sellers favor, which we both know isn't remotely true. That's why I'm rethinking sticking around or just processing CC's ourselves.

I'd have to assume you're a CS employee for paypal, or for some reason are blind to the gaping holes in what could be a useful processing agency.

Best,

[surplusdealdude]

I heard the 2/3 figure from auctionbytes - I don't have a link, unfortunately.

Not hard to see where it comes from, though - sellers know the dispute system better than buyers do and they know enough not to fight a dispute when they can't win.

2nd, selling products that promote a lot of disputes....   you mean any single consumable? What market IS there a downside for filing a dispute? Please elaborate.

They're called 'niche markets' - any market where you can move into and be the dominant player either in price, selection or service. (prefereably all three).

They can be anything - be the largest, cheapest supplier of Blackberry parts recovered from disassembled phones, be the world's largest Kazoo distributor ( that's taken, btw).  Just as long as you are demonstrably better than your competition.

The more you are better than the competition, the less flak people will give you because getting blocked from your site represents a real cost to them - they either have to pay more in the future, or spend more time shopping around and likely pay more in shipping costs from several sites where they formerly could get everything they want from you.

Yes, the buyer can do damage once, never twice - you block him the first time.  I get a lot of repeat business, so I'm not as dependent on first-timers as some people.

I am not a paypal employee, nor am I blind.  The buyer MUST come first if all of us want to staynin business - if anything, the past 4 years have taught us that on ebay.  But there's no reason the seller's have to be crucified, either and they wouldn't be hung out to dry so often if 90% of them knew what they were doing, which they don't.

Find a niche

Learn the systems, both ebay and paypal

Serve the customer.

Learn to cover your butt.

That's how you succeed.