Ripped off by buyer and Paypal is to blame.

[crenshaw]

I sold a couple of items on Ebay, this guy won, paid for the items a day later.  Nothing odd.   THEN 4 days later,  after the package has arrived at his house, he files an unauthorized payment claim and Paypal gave him the money back and I am out 2 wireless routers.  He has never responded to my emails about returning them, nor did Paypal.

How is this legal and why would Paypal do such a thing after I submitted proof that he had them in his hands?

[Rkirk]

I am just amazed.   The same thing just happened to me.  Paypal better get this kind of thing resolved or there won't be a paypal.  In my case the transaction was for services, so I can't even get seller protection.  My company generally works with about 100 clients per year, many of whom are online and need paypal to pay for services.  I have always recommended them.  Now I will need to tell my clients that they need full credit card services to protect themselves. 

Paypal in this instance won't even do anything about the reversal.  They won't call the bank or give me the name of the bank without a subpoena.  

Maybe there's a way to do a class action lawsuit on this against all banks and paypal.  I have an attorney friend who is a little short on work.  Maybe they'd like to take this one on.

[postal_employee]

What a bloody rip-off on paypals part.! They want you the seller to prove the buyer got the item and then they ignore you. What is worse they reverse the charges. I assume the item went to the address on the paypal account. If that is so I would file a complaint against paypal with your local STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL. That might get their .....! 

[surplusdealdude]

First of all, this has nothing to do with Paypal.

These are chargebacks done on credit cards - the credit card company is the one making the decisions here, not paypal. 

Paypal's position is that they will present your case to the CC company on your behalf.  IF you fulfilled all of the requirements of the Seller Protection plan (Shipped to the address in the Paypal payment notice, shipped with DC or signature confirmation if the item+shipping was over $250 and you have confirmation of delivery that's viewable online), then Paypal will absorb the amount of the chargeback.

The credit card companies, as a matter of course, ALWAYS initially deny the claim, but they review the information provided over the next 75 days and make a final decision, which may still go in your favour - they're interested in being fair.

I find tht it is helpful to file a charge of mail fraud with the USPS Postal inspectors and mention in the information sent to the CC Company that you are doing so - scammers do not like to deal with postal inspectors - those people are scary and they have more powers than the police.

So keep fighting, but fight the right people.

[crenshaw]

Ebay says it's Paypal's problem and Paypal says it's Ebay's problem. So I don't expect anything good to happen with this.

So far I have contacted 8 sellers that this guy has purchased stuff from in the past 14 days and heard back from 4 so far.  All are in the same situation I am in.  The day the items were proven to be delivered, they received a claim on that item and lost their money and their item.

Makes me want to go back to the old days of money orders and cash on delivery.

[postal_employee]

Try doing that and Ebay will have a fit! They won't get their Pay Pal fee and they will end your listing asking for a "Money Order". What a joke, claiming that a money order isn't a legal for of payment. They should be reported to you local Attorney State General! Let them try and tell them money orders aren't ACCEPTABLE! 

[surplusdealdude]

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@crenshaw wrote:

Ebay says it's Paypal's problem and Paypal says it's Ebay's problem. So I don't expect anything good to happen with this.

So far I have contacted 8 sellers that this guy has purchased stuff from in the past 14 days and heard back from 4 so far.  All are in the same situation I am in.  The day the items were proven to be delivered, they received a claim on that item and lost their money and their item.

Makes me want to go back to the old days of money orders and cash on delivery.

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If you can document the fact that this has been done to a number of sellers, report the person to www.ic3.gov.  That's the report site for the FBI internet crime division - they may go after this person if you can prove a pattern.

[viper6202001]

I just got ripped off by Pay Pal for the same thing.  I thought the issue was resolved then the buyer issued an unauthorized use of card.   I sent PayPal the delivery confirmation number which showed that the buyer was the one who authorized the purchase, then they still gave the buyer $257.42 of MY money back to the buyer AND I don't get my item back.  I am definately interested in a class action lawsuit.  My phone number is (585) 367-8212.

[surplusdealdude]

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@viper6202001 wrote:

I just got ripped off by Pay Pal for the same thing.  I thought the issue was resolved then the buyer issued an unauthorized use of card.   I sent PayPal the delivery confirmation number which showed that the buyer was the one who authorized the purchase, then they still gave the buyer $257.42 of MY money back to the buyer AND I don't get my item back.  I am definately interested in a class action lawsuit.  My phone number is (585) 367-8212.

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Paypal did not rip you off - the buyer ripped you off.

On a credit card chargeback, Paypal is powerless to intervene because they aren't the ones making the decision - the CC Company is.

Paypal DOES act as your advocate if you send them information to defend your claim - did you send anything?

Be aware that Credit card companies ALWAYS find in favour of the buyer initially, then they take up to 75 days to review the information and make a final decision.  You may win the case yet.