Buyer disputed payment as item not as described, never returned the item and got a full refund.

[tman7479]

I recently sold an electronic for $850, shipped it out and the buyer said it arrived damaged and he could fix it. Long story short a item "not as described"  claim was filed with paypal and they closed it in the buyers favor and refunded the full $850.  As far as I can tell Paypal's policies state the item need to be returned by the buyer and the refund should be issued when it is received back by me.  

I've been in touch with the buyer and he is offering to send me $350 back and keep the item and if I want the item back since he has received the refund already he said in an email he'll take some parts out and ship it with "air" meaning he is saying it will arive as junk back to me if I don't accept $350 from him.  

Again he has both the electronic and the $850 back and he feels he can now offer anything I want otherwise he will follow through on his threat of shipping it back in even worse condition or "just disappear" as he put it since why does he care he has the money and the merchandise.  He's basically dictating the terms as he sees fit as paypal closed the case on issuance of the refund and then when I appealed and said the item was not returned they closed the appeal and stated "We sent an email to the customer to ask them to resolve this".   

Again it appears to be direct violation of the agreement that states that Item not as claimed disputes should be returned first then refunded.

In any event I have over 1500 + sales on ebay with not one dispute and over 2000 positive feedbacks so It's not like I'm some jerk that sells broken merchandise.  

Any recourse short of persuing legal action or filing a complaint with the better business bureau?  I can't reopen the claim or find any way to contact paypal about this. I do have an email from the customer to my paypal email stating he will remove parts and ship it back with "air" if I want it back as to discourage me from persuing my merchandise . (Sold for $850 MSRP street price of $2100 MSRP of $3000)

[lancelotme]

Tman,

He is asking if Paypal asked him to return the item,look into the case and see what Paypal asked him to do.

You are right,in case of item not a described,PAYPAL will ask him to return the item,upload tracking and then refund.

In your case,signature confirmation as well.

[lancelotme]

He's basically dictating the terms as he sees fit as paypal closed the case on issuance of the refund and then when I appealed and said the item was not returned they closed the appeal and stated "We sent an email to the customer to ask them to resolve this".   

------------------------------------------------------

this sounds like PAYPAL,after the case is closed,and money returned to the buyer,there is no way Paypal can debit his credit card  again.

thats why Paypal send out this email saying ask buyer to resolve this.

I have a case years ago when a Russian woman bought a gold chain from me,she did not pick up the package from the local post office,instead she filed item not received.

After she won the case,she ran to the post office to pick up the item,due to the time difference,I did not find out until the next day.

When I contact Paypal,it has already refunded her,so they said we sent her an email to refund you??????

I think it has to do with Paypal and how the credit card transaction works,Paypal has one big merchant account with banks and we are just subaccounts within Paypal.

Paypal debit your buyer cc ,then it credit your buyer cc ,now it becomes a wash.

And you appealed and they admitted you are right,but how do they get the money back??they cannot debit the same transaction again,and they are not willing to refund you out of their coffer,so they just say we send her an email or work it out and hope you will just go away and lick your chop!

If you can prove Paypal makes a mistake by not asking for return and proof of return with tracking and signature confirmation and making a mistake by returning his money,Paypal should eat this charge.

But how can you do that?some managed to succeed,may be a lawyer letter,I dont know or haev your local newspaper call them   

[lancelotme]

If you are selling many high ticket items ,have you considered applying for a merchant account,either your local bank or Costco etc.

IN case of chargeback,your bank which provides you the merchant account will help you fight the chargeback,it will be able to speak to the other bank and give you feedback of what the buyer said.

chargeback fee could behigher though. 

[tman7479]

I did think about the merchant account route but couldn't get anyone to match the $17000 available immediately that I had built up with PayPal. The last email now from PayPal states "we have Contacted the customer and asked them to provide you a refund". I have a feeling that Paypal will wind up paying for this if I persue it hard enough since the buyer didn't return the item. I can't find anything In any agreement that says he buyer keeps the item free and gets a refund if something is not as described. Interestingly enough someone lodged a very similar complaint with the better business buruea and the response was something about the PayPal system incorrectly giving refunds before the item was returned and PayPal paid the seller in response to the bbb complaint. This flaw as admitted in the BBb complaint might be circulated now amongst scammers that they don't have to return items and can still get refunded with little effort.

[lancelotme]

I think in your case,it was the Paypal robot which handles your case.

Some one from PAYPAL just posted in reply to question on appealing closed Paypal account and reopening it to use on porn sites,

this Paypal rep said email us at AUP @ PAYPAL.COM

I dont know what AUP stand for,but may be you can email him and see what he has to say.

[DPCreations]

As more an more details have been provided since the original post, it seems like PayPal should reverse the refund in your favor, but you need to keep on top of it and stick to the facts and keep it simple:  buyer was supposed to return and did not.

[lancelotme]

---

@DPCreations wrote:

As more an more details have been provided since the original post, it seems like PayPal should reverse the refund in your favor, but you need to keep on top of it and stick to the facts and keep it simple:  buyer was supposed to return and did not.

---

yes,and no tracking and no signature confirmation are proofs that he did not return the item,plus the emails buyer sent saying he offered 350 and he will return it damaged.   

[lancelotme]

Before I forget,there is also this-

if returning an item,it must be returned in the condition as sent and this buyer has said he has altered the item,so it is no longer fit to return.

Seller has email to prove he has changed the item,and he has threatened to do a sloppy job returning the item that she could no longer resell it,thats another email.

If he loses the dispute and go to a chargeback,he would not win.

I think PAYPAL shoudl let the buyer keeps the item and let the seller get her money back,if PAYPAL cannot clawback the money from the buyer,then Paypal would have to pay. 

[sharpiemarker]

AUP means Acceptable Use Policy, by the way.

$350....chargeback....$350....chargeback....hmmmm....

Have you replied to buyer declining the $350?  Keep that option open.  Perhaps negotiate refund up to $425, half. The item arrived damaged and the buyer paid to have it fixed.

Then keep on the pressure with PayPal because it's their goofy bots made the wrong decision.  Get PayPal to refund the other half.  Then you're made whole again.

[lancelotme]

I would not bother with this buyer and nail Paypal for not following its own policy.

It sounds like Paypal is extending credit to the OP,probably makes a lot of money as a lender,so PAYPAL would have to refund her in full.

Thanks for telling what AUP means?

This is from a thread last night on PAYPAL could be used on porn sites. 

-----------------

where did you read chargeback,there is no chargeback.

The buyer has the item,he fixed it and offer a partial refund so he can keep the item.