Next step after Paypal completely screws up claim process

[temp201811162d]

Quick history: I sold a camera on ebay, listed and described as used, with minor signs of scuffs etc, which had no effect on the camera's functionality. My auction included high resolution photos, too. The buyer bought it within hours of my listing it because I listed it cheaper than other sellers. The buyer is a reseller who saw a money-maker.

The buyer filed an ebay dispute, then went to Paypal with a dispute, then escalated it to a claim, saying that the camera was "significantly not as described" (untrue), then that changed to "defective" (untrue), then it changed to "does not function as described" (untrue). None of these are true, and his claim didn't meet a single one of Paypal's requirements for a valid claim. In fact, he met every single Paypal requirement that makes a claim INvalid.

Paypal said they "investigated" the claim, and decided in the buyer's favor, but didn't have a single piece of evidence other than the buyer's false claim. How can an "investigation" happen when one side isn't questioned and no evidence is presented?

Anyway, I got the camera back from the buyer, and took a video of me opening the box and running the camera through its functions, proving that the claim was fraudulent. Paypal doesn't care and won't even look at the video. Then I sent screen shots of various parts of the video, since they won't look at the video itself, and they still don't care - even with photographic proof that the buyer's claim was fraudulent.

It's obvious that nobody investigated anything, and Paypal just took the easy way out and refunded the buyer. What is my recourse?

[DPCreations]

PayPal does not inspect items before shipment and PayPal does not inspect items received by buyer; this means that PayPal has no first-hand knowledge of the product to know if it worked or doesn't work.  All PayPal can do is review the information provided by both buyer and seller and then decide which party is more likely telling the truth and then make a decision.

It seems like the resolution was good in that you got back the original camera and in good working order.  That's a much better solution than if the buyer had returned a damaged camera or even a dummy camera just to show delivery.  The buyer could have made it really difficult, yet did the right thing by return the camera that worked.

Did the buyer contact you at any time after the purchase or any time before filing a dispute? 

During the dispute did you make any effort to resolve the issue with the buyer?

[temp201811162d]

The buyer's contact with me was through an ebay dispute, where he said the camera "wasn't to his expectations" (otherwise known as buyer's remorse), and that the lens was scratched, which is patently untrue. I have a "no returns" policy expressly to avoid "buyer's remorse" nonsense, and I provide high resolution photos of anything I sell, along with a lengthy detailed description. There are no surprises.

I didn't have time to resolve anything - he went straight from ebay disputes to a Paypal dispute to a Paypal claim, with completely untrue allegations which I have proven 100% (with photos and video) to be untrue. The problem is that nobody at Paypal seems to care about my proof that his claim was fraudulent.

When Paypal takes the time to list requirements for a valid claim, and then doesn't even follow their own requirements in validating or invalidating a claim, what does that tell an account holder?

[Whac-A-Mole]

selling used item ,especially electronic items can be dicey.

You may think it is fine,lens not scratched and it works fine,but unless you have the original packing,something can happen in transit,or while you pack the item or when he opens the package.

It sounds like buyer remorse,if he wins on Ebay,you pay return shipping,so now he files on Paypal,he pays return shipping.

Just relist . 

[temp201811162d]

"Just relist"....really? You think account holders should just put up with treatment like this? I've been on ebay for 17 years and have 100% positive feedback. That's part of my issue with being treated like this by Paypal. No, I shouldn't "just relist" - there should be some accountability for Paypal.

[DPCreations]

Fortunately, the buyer sent back a good camera even after you refused to resolve the issue with a permitted return.  As a seller you have the option to modify your policies whenever you want and to make exceptions for the benefit of your business.

When a seller refused to resolve an issue, the buyer then has no other options except to pursue the claim through a variety of methods from eBay, to PayPal, and finally with credit card.  At step it is less likely the seller will be successful with the dispute.  If the buyer found it necessary to dispute with credit card it is even likely the buyer would have been given  refund and even allowed to keep the camera as it was clear you didn't want a return.

There are risks when it comes to selling online.

The best way would be to only accept cash or postal money orders so you don't have to deal with payment services.

[temp201811162d]

"...after you refused to resolve the issue with a permitted return". You mean after I refused to accept buyer's remorse as a valid reason to take the camera back? There's a reason why ebay doesn't even consider buyer's remorse to be a valid reason to request a return. Paypal, on the other hand, doesn't care - just file a claim and say the item is defective, and Paypal will go with that, case closed.

"When a seller refused to resolve an issue, the buyer then has no other options except to pursue the claim" Or the buyer can accept some personal responsibility for jumping on an auction because he sees a money-maker, and then changing his mind about it.

"There are risks when it comes to selling online" Like using services such as Paypal? I agree. And before you tell me to delete my Paypal account, I buy a lot on ebay and I can't remember a single auction that didn't require Paypal as payment. I'm not a business, I'm a regular ebay user who occasionally sells something I no longer need.

[William9]

PayPal is run mostly by robots, they make automated decisions. When PayPal says they are investigating, it doesn't necessarily mean that human employee even knows such case exists. For PayPal, it is enough that buyer claims something, whether or not it is true is not the top priority. Making money and avoiding chargebacks is. Happy buyer will also continue using the service, there will also always be sellers putting themselves at risk and paying a fee for it. In this situation, you can be thankful that you even got your item back and it works, there are lots of stories about sellers who didn't.

[Whac-A-Mole]

Paypal robot and rep do not watch videos and read story,anyone can take picture of one item and ship another.

Best is to accept return and relist,no return in a case of item not as described means seller does not want the item back,so buyer gets the money back and keep the item.

Item not as described trumps seller policy !

[Whac-A-Mole]

It is not that easy to buy on Ebay and resell on Ebay,because there is the Ebay final value fee and Paypal fee,the item has to be low enough to cover these fees and allow the seller to make a profit.