PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

Login to Me Too
489 REPLIES 489

blue-c
Contributor
Contributor

executive office @ paypal.com

Login to Me Too

pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

Hey (rgt 1)I really dont care if they monitor this forum or not im not really trying to talk to them cause thats  not going to get me anywhere,and dont refer to me as (you people) like you've established your above me and have a grasp of life and im just a low life ,look at me when im talking to you boy ,,see you like it when your talked to like that,  I know  lets meet on the streets and you call me you people and you'll see how hard you blow snot bubbles from your nose in a coma and then you can be like those people who wake up in a hospital bed 5 days later talking like that qauterback on waterboy..... 

Login to Me Too

pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

And another thing (rgt 1) im sorry im one of those people ,those (you people) as you put it who might ruin your little tea-time chat room where you and your buds can paint your toe nails and braid your hairs for each other im sssssssooooooooo   sorry didnt mean to be ,how 'd you put it o (you people) one of them ,seeing as how im just totally clueless about life and didnt recognize the smell of you uppercrust perfume  will you forgive me.....

Login to Me Too

pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

(hu hu who 'dat)

Login to Me Too

pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

In a way ebay is more ours ,when you pay for something ,like a service or time its yours we make ebay we make paypal when did our money become there money to do with whatever they want.

Login to Me Too

rgt1
Contributor
Contributor

I am furious, as well, with PayPal.  As a seller in excellent standing, completing each transaction with speed and efficiency, I then have to wait for PayPal to decide to release my money!  I find this outrageous and ethically wrong that they get to keep my money and get interest over that waiting period.  How am I expected to continue selling when PayPal controls my cash flow in this way?  Why don't they try standing up for we the sellers, who strive to maintain membership in PayPal, paying their fees upon fees, while still doing everything we can to please our buyers.  Why are we penalized?

This "pending payment" policy is legally flawed and a conflict of interest exists with PayPal gaining interest on our money without compensation to the seller.  I, for one, expect some explanation, if I am to continue using PayPal.

 

Login to Me Too

htlegs3347
New Community Member

I totally disagree also with this payment hold and think that  its another way of paypal to make money. I am thinking of getting rid of my paypal account and just doing credit transactions. This is a decision that is up to an individual not a company that makes millions off of people like us.

Login to Me Too

pebbles
Contributor
Contributor

21 days hold is too long,PayPal should follow the 3 - 7 business days HOLD policy of  the banking industry.

Login to Me Too

rolynnthundar
Contributor
Contributor

This is the response I got from paypal when I emailed them, they never answered my question.  I have 100% feedback, been a member for 4 years and no disputes.  This is a catch 22 situation it seems.

 

Hello Sr. Phillip Bowman,

My name is Daniel and I am glad to assist you with your inquiry.
I need tell you that yeah we protect the buyer a lot because to start
with they are the ones who start a transaction making payments before
made the request that’s why we had this policy for their security
because like in any place if someone request money and later the product
all persons think twice. But we protect both sides I was checking and
for the sellers we had a skill to avoid holds.

For new sellers or sellers with less-than-optimal customer satisfaction
ratings, payments may be held as a precaution until the buyer receives
their item. Your payments will typically not be held if you meet all the
following requirements:
* You have been an eBay member for 6 months or more.
* Your total feedback score is 100 or greater.
* Your buyer dissatisfaction percentage is less than 5%.

Or, if you meet all the following requirements:

* Your average detailed seller rating is 4.5 or greater.
* You have received 20 or more detailed seller ratings in the last
12 months.
* Your buyer dissatisfaction percentage is less than 5%.

If you’ve had more than 5% dissatisfied buyers in the last 30 days, you
are required to offer PayPal or a merchant credit card.

If you don't yet meet these criteria, we recommend that you implement
best practices to reduce buyer disputes, claims and chargebacks. Once
the requirements are met the item holds will discontinue.

I wish you an excellent day.
Login to Me Too

pebbles
Contributor
Contributor

Although I understand the need fo protect the buyers ( we're all consumers by the way )  from unscrupulous people & criminal element online.

 

However,the 21 days HOLD POLICY is unjust to decent sellers.

 

The need of modiffication to the current policy is neccesary,to release the funds upon arrival of shipment to the buyer with delivery or signature confirmation & positive feedback within 24 or 48 hours.

Login to Me Too

Haven't Found your Answer?

It happens. Hit the "Login to Ask the community" button to create a question for the PayPal community.