PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

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489 REPLIES 489

gamble
Contributor
Contributor

EVERYONE seems to be pretty upset here.

the bottom line is paypal is a business. their primary goal is to make as much money as possible with as little overhead as possible. if im wrong please let me know...

yes, there was a time when the  paypal logo meant that everybody was happy and nobody got ripped off. NOW PAYPAL AND EBAY HAVE BECOME SUCH A HOUSEHOLD NAME THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE POWER OVER THE PEOPLE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH PEOPLES MONEY THAT WAS ENTRUSTED TO THEM.

*** THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A SECOND ***

QUESTIONS :

-WHY IS THE SELLER THE ONE THAT HAS TO PAY FEES AND NOTHING ON THE BUYERS END???

 

-WHY  CAN A BUYER REFUND ME A BOX OF ROCKS AND PAYPAL GIVES HIM 700$ BACK  FROM ME, A SELLER AND THE BUYER GETS TO WALK AWAY WITH A FREE 1000$ T.V. I JUST HAD TO SELL SO MY KIDS COULD PLAY SPORTS THIS YEAR??? AND GUESS WHAT??? I HAD TO STILL PAY PAL AND EBAY FEES FOR THAT CHIT...

 

ANSWER:

THEY TAKE MONEY  FROM  THE SELLER  NOT BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THE BUYER..... BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE SELLER EITHER NEEDS MONEY SO THERE IS NO CHOICE BUT TO ACCEPT PAYPALS FILTHY, GREEDY POLICIES AND COMPLETELY LAME AZZ EXCUSES AS TO WHY THIS IS HAPPENING AND WE ALL ACCEPT IT..

 

 

WE SELLERS  SIT HERE AND **bleep** ABOUT THIS.... WE NEED TO HAVE THE BUYERS PAY SOME OF THESE FEES AND LETS SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING PAYPAL TO BUY THINGS.....

 

I SAY WE RAISE THE PRICES ON MERCHANDISE 25%-30% AND SIMPLY ADD TO OUT LISTINGS THAT DUE TO OUR NEW PAYMENT PROCESS WE HAVE TO CHARGE EXTRA FOR  FUNDS HELD.

 

HONESTLY WHY DOES PAYPAL THINK WE ARE THERE EMPLOYEES AND THEY ARE OUR MANAGERS THAT DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITHG OUTR MONEY.

 

 

 

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gamble
Contributor
Contributor

HERE IS A BETTER IDEA...

 

SELLERS MENTION IN YOUR (STATE WHICH CITY) LOCAL CRAISLIST AND IF =BOUGHT OFF CRAIGSLIST THE WILL RECIEVE A DISCOUNTED PRICE TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT WE PAY EBAY /PAYPAL .  ACCEPT ONLY MONEY ORDERS..

 

TELL ME THAT AS A BUYER YOU WOULDNT WANT TO SAVE 25% OF THE COST.... WHICH IS PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT ALL THESE FEES EQUAL OUT TOO. THATS A DECENT CHUNK OF MONEY...CONSIDERING PAYPAL WANTS TO BORROW IT FOR 21 DAYS  AND WE CANT TELL THEM NO BECAUSE THEY SEE HOW MUCH MONEY  THEY COULD MAKE BY MAKING 3% OF WHAT I IMAGINE WOULD BE CLOSE TO IF NOT WELL OVER $XX,000,000 (DOUBLE DIGIT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS)

 

CHIT... I HATE TO ADMIT THIS BECAUSE I THINK ITS DEVILISH....

     BUT  ID TAKE 3% OF THAT AND **bleep** EVERYONE OVER TOO.....

SORRY BUT AT LEAST IM HONEST.

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trendgroup
New Community Member

Right on! I hope Paypal actually cares enough to read how unhappy their customers are.  I also am stuck waiting for money that Paypal is holding even though my customer has received their merchandise 4 days ago.  It has been a learning experience and I will DEFINATELY require other payment options such as COD in the future. 

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hotrodlee39
New Community Member

I agree - I have waited for over two weeks for payment - still pending.  PayPal is a ripe-off.  From now on, I will only accept cashiers checks and wait to clear befor I ship. 

 

Lee 

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rarecover
Contributor
Contributor

What I really, really, really want to hear from someone at Paypal/Ebay is what benefits we as sellers get. It's great that the buyer is protected and so on... but the buyer goes online, buys stuff (sometimes for less than 0.01% of the original value... gotta love winning $0.01 bids), pays shipping (sometimes way less than the actual cost of shipping), gets their products, takes their sweet time with feedback but still has their product in hand and is happy about it. Sellers get charged fees from all over the place - EBay, Paypal, and then any additional shipping costs not covered by the shipping charge (not to mention the money you might be losing just by the selling the item) and then we get to sit around and wait for our money.

 

Right now I'm out a $300 suit, that was sold for only $100 (minus almost $20 in fees!!) AND I'm sitting around praying for the funds to finally be released because it was delivered almost a week ago

 

If they're going to make us wait for arbitrary amounts of time they need to decrease their fees. At this point their fees are going to be deducted before the funds are released. Great. Should've just set up a $5 tent at a flea market and sold stuff there.

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kthom2121
Member
Member

I'm deleting my eBay AND PayPal account because of this stupid BS about pending payments. I don't have to waste my time on this because PayPal is trying to **bleep** me out of my money when I SHOUDLD have gotten it. Good job Paypal....you're going to lose ALOT of people over this new rule.

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tomg
Contributor
Contributor

hmm i give up paypal not only holds feedback to hold your money they hold transfer for up to 5 days when the money has left your bank in 2 days not pending gone  ebay owns paypal this is how they control you after all my fees are payed to me i will sell an occassional clearance item from an ebay store something that would have sat around anyway

buyers dont leave feedback all the time this is poorly done we ship pay fees and buy product and they cant trust a person with 100 % feedback this stinks my mistake for putting shipping money in my account  they held that too last time seems like ecommerce and auction sites i have seen have a better class of buyers and pay better prices as well .. there are many class actions suits going on easy to google them my gosh what is ebay think there are thousand of new sellers from china type in worldwide auctions and see what you get alot of 1cent  sales they call gifts and maIL OUT FOR FEEDBACK MOST DONT GIVE YOU FEEDBACK .. EVEN IF YOU LEAVE THEM

what is going on is ebay using our money to fund a new china market or what they cant holds free shipping 1 cent sale money go figure why us is held up and not them or maybe just change name and new bank i dont know but hope they like ebay  policies

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Katchaleenspath
Contributor
Contributor

Hay Guys,

 

  Pay Pal now has my money in a holding account, when I called to ask why there was not a reason, I was further informed that I should have  money or a Capitol before I open a business in order to complete a transaction or handle shipping costs,  Well Fudge what the **bleep** kind of response is that...............

 

I started selling my items in order to improve my money situation, now it is worse because I am shipping products with my grocery money.

 

Does anyone know a different way to handle payments  through eBay sells, I got a message saying money orders are not allowed so what now "FROG SKINS"?

 

I think pay pay should shut down if they are so afraid of losing money that they have to hi jack others , the BBB will be notified .......... Perhaps they should look at their capitol gains account and stop lecturing me on mine, at least I am doing thing the honest way.

 

Shirley

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Dontlikeitman
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

i heard that paymate is the next best thing to paypal and ebay accepts paymate as a money transfer also and that paymate doesnt work like paypal does at all either and they are not own by ebay either. down side with paymate is that you will have to wait around 5 business days to get your money though. but the funds are not fony funds either like paypal gives you but rather real funds. 

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THIS IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS BULL I'VE EVER SEEN.

 

I can't believe the highway robbery snit you aceholes just pulled.

 

It's somewhat comforting to know, after seeing this 49 page thread, that I'm not the only innocent person who was bent over by this "pending payment" tomfoolery. However, that comfort doesn't get me the 300 dollars I needed a week ago. That's why I sold my flucking laptop to begin with.

 

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