What is the point of using Paypal if the buyer can just do a chargeback?

nastypoker
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I sold an item 2nd hand on a forum. I posted is insured + photographs etc. 

 

Buyer said they were not happy and wanted to return the item but the reasons were that they were not happy with the performance and it didn't meet their expectations but they were a pair of headphones. They worked perfectly as they should. I refused a return as it was a 2nd hand item with no warranty or returns accepted. 

 

The buyer then initiated a chargeback and was successful even though I uploaded the original advert and chat log with the buyer. 

 

What is the point in using Paypal if a buyer can just do this for large amounts of money? I thought there was some protection for sellers but apparently not! I have been using paypal for 15+ years without major issues and suddenly I am out thousands because there is zero protection for sellers. 

 

 

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kernowlass
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@nastypoker 

 

Personally I just ask them to return the item and issue a refund, secondhand item or not.

As a buyer that is what I would want if I didn't like an item. 

Was it a paypal dispute OR a chargeback via their card issuer as there is a big difference between the 2.


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nastypoker
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The item was a high value item sold 2nd hand. I do not want to accept returns! If a buyer wants to demo an item out to see if they will like it, they should go to a shop!

What happens if I get a return and it is damaged or worn more than when I sent it? 

 

It was a chargeback via their card issuer but as Paypal handles it, giving me no information other than that I lost, how is that helpful? Now I have to deal with legal action and all the hassle that brings. 

The only reason to use paypal is for the protection is offers but it seems the protection is non-existent for sellers. I could not have done anything else. 

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kernowlass
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@nastypoker 

 

Up to you but you would have received the item back if you had agreed to refund, with a chargeback they often don't require the buyer to do that.

 

The chargeback process is external to the PayPal system. The buyer's credit card issuer grants its members specific consumer protection which PayPal has no authority to replace or reduce. If a PayPal user initiates a chargeback with their credit card company Paypal have no way of stopping the claim. 

 

If the card issuer grants the case in the buyer's favour, Paypal review the transaction on your PayPal account to see if it is eligible for Seller Protection. So you would need to read up on paypals seller protection policy so you can risk assess future sales.

 

 


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nastypoker
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"If a PayPal user initiates a chargeback with their credit card company Paypal have no way of stopping the claim. "

 

I mean that isn't true, otherwise I could just order stuff continuously with a credit card and just chargeback all the time. In reality, the credit card issuer must allow the seller to provide evidence that the item was not as described or not delivered. I uploaded all info to Paypal but have no idea if this was actually given to the buyers credit card company. I don't even know what was said by the buyer to his CC company and what the CC company said to Paypal. I am just in the dark being told that I am not getting money or the item back. 

 

I am aware this sounds like a rant and that is because it is. Paypal take 3-5% fee for doing nothing to protect me and saying that I should just accept returns when I am not a business is nonsense. 

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kernowlass
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@nastypoker 

 

I said PAYPAL have no way of stopping the claim.

If the buyer wins or not is dependent on the credit card companies decision not paypal.

You upload any proof to paypal who forward it to the card issuer and the CARD ISSUER decides whether their client gets a refund or not.


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nastypoker
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I understand that. 

My question still stands, why am I paying 3-5% to paypal if they offer zero protection?

 

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kernowlass
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@nastypoker 

 

Did you expect 100% protection?

How can they do that when both buyer and sellers are both their customers.

They give 'some' buyer and 'some' seller protection, then you read the policies and risk assess your transactions.

 


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nastypoker
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Looks like I need to get a credit card and start fraudulently buying stuff. 

/sarcasm

 

I had no questions from paypal, no communication other than one to tell me the case was open and then closed for reasons "Other". If they won't fight the CC company, at least let me know what has been said.

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kernowlass
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@nastypoker 

 

Credit card chargebacks don't always work and if you do repeated chargebacks your card issuer may decline you a service.

However online selling is never 100% safe, you have to expect the odd bad transaction.

If a shop gave up after x1 shoplifter we wouldn't have any shops, they configure those losses into their sales just as we have to do when selling online regardless of whether you are a business or not.  


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