PayPal supports scam sellers but not those scammed

[Ollers]

Hi, I am posting this here on the PayPal community to help other buyers, who like me thought they were protected by PayPal when using a credit card. Unfortunately, the PayPal process is set up to strongly favour fraudulent and corrupt sellers. I will share my experience of the PayPal process. 1. I ordered an item on Instagram. 2. I paid using PayPal and my credit card. 3. I realised moments after something wasn’t right. 4. Researched online and saw from the comments on Trust Pilot and their Facebook page that it was a scam. Literally every comment declared it a scam. I provided this info to PayPal in my dispute claim. See Trust Pilot page below: https://ie.trustpilot.com/review/murray-dublin.com 5. I immediately cancelled, or more accurately I cancelled 5 mins after ordering. I provided PayPal with proof of this. 6. Below are the issues that I raised and provided evidence of to PayPal: a. The company advertised as being a family run business based in Dublin and sells Irish made leather bags. i. It is not based in Dublin but in China ii. The goods are not as described I.e. they are not Irish hand made leather bags. They are Chinese made and per comments online are made of plastic b. The company advertise there is 24hr window to cancel order. i. They do not honour this as I cancelled within 5 mins of ordering and they sent it anyway. - While PayPal agreed that I had provided enough proof and that the company was a scam. They said they would not do a chargeback but that I should return the item and ask the scammers for a refund. And this is why Paypal’s process enables fraudulent companies. These sham companies know if they set up a website falsely claiming it to be in the EU and send the item PayPal will tell the buyer to return it. But: 1. It is expensive to send packages by registered post to China. These companies know this and exploit the seriously flawed PayPal process to their advantage. 2. Why would I spend good money after bad when obviously if they are a sham they are not going to refund me. This is not a legit company. They are not trading on reputation. The reason they sent it regardless of it being cancelled is because they know that if they send it PayPal will tell the seller to return it and ask for a refund. But who’s going to do that and lose more money. So that’s it. PayPal are asking me to waste more money and send back the plastic bags to a China. No chargeback, even though they acknowledge the company is fraudulent and I have been scammed. No block on the company, so they can continue to fraud others. I share my experience to warn others. PayPal does not protect the buyer even in the most egregious and obvious of cases.

[kernowlass]

@theidleone 

Why would you send money using friends/family if they were not a close mate or family member???

A friends / family (or gift payment) is intended as a transfer of funds from family or friends to one another. For this reason, there is no processing fee when payment is made with bank or PayPal balance.
However as it is a gift payment, there is also no buyer protection as no goods or services should have been exchanged.

If he was not a close mate or family member you should never use that option as it enables the seller to evade paying his Paypal fees and negates your buyer protection at the same time.

You would also not be able to open a dispute (apart from one citing an unauthorised transaction), which would be automatically closed as you did authorise the initial payment.

Be careful as using that option for purchasing goods is against Paypal rules and can lead to account limitation.

If you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card then contact your card issuer and see if they will help you but unfortunately they may decline as well as it was a gift payment.

[Rach56]

Received a bag that was not as described. Plastic hardware and brown plastic material. Gave proof of merchant saying metal hardware yellow luxurious high grade leather. Also proof of merchant agreeing goods not as described by WhatsApp message and also saying they agree to refund through paypal. Paypal keep making up excuses why they cant help and refund. Blaming my bank so they can avoid refunding me!!! Would never recommend this service any more, terrible experience. I have been waiting since 9th July and they keep blaming my bank for not helping me with refund.Worst experience and they dont want to help they just want your money!

[Queenlin70]

Thank you for posting this I am going through a similar issue with a scam company out of China. My problem is however with the process of requesting a refund I can not finish the online request for on PayPal as it blanks out and tells me something went wrong either just before I hit submit or immediately afterwards. It's so frustrating plus what is the 500 bonus points ? Does paypal charge them to your account. I think I'll just call this a loss and delete paypal and from now on if a company only takes paypal then I need not do any business with them.

[Aman54]

I guess my peeve point is while the 'buyer' certainly should have some level of awareness when buying from the wild wild west of the internet, it's the misleading advertisement/claim around 'buyer protection' being offered on the website. I even had a scammer once tell me not to worry. Just pay. Product genuine (sincerely doubt it). After all, you're paying using papyal and you have protection. So while paypal is giving us some degree of confidence in the purchase, the definition of protection needs to be better explained and more upfront.

[kernowlass]

@Aman54 

In a dispute if the buyer wins the seller is on here screaming its unfair and if the seller wins its the buyer.

There is nothing misleading about buyer protection as it can never cover you 100%, even credit cards have terms and conditions and regularly find against the purchaser.

If you want it further explained why not go to the buyer protection policy and read it? 

[Lolita_Flamenco]

Your post (Ollers) matched my thoughts exactly. I ‘ve just received notification that my appeal was refused on the grounds of my proof of posting being invalid. Yes sadly I was the person you were asking about when saying “who will send it back to China”? Me…. just out of principle because PayPal insisted I send their rubbish back. Exact thing, they advertised as small family business with a UK address and very ethical minded, they also said returns are super easy, bla, bla, bla…, upon receiving 4 garments I knew these was the work of scammers even in the bags still. These were supposed to be cotton and linen (I can’t wear synthetics at all due skin conditions and not liking it), threads everywhere and zero quality certainly no cotton or linen that I guarantee. I contacted the seller/scammers saying this was nothing like advertised, plus have no labels, and basically the cheapest possible rubbish the kind of fabric used for kid’s school plays. I paid £70.27, I refused a partial goodwill refund again out of principle as none worth a penny and have no intention in keeping or using. I also refused initially to send back the stuff as they ofc didn’t provide free return label, PayPal then insisted I needed to shoulder the cost of sending the stuff back and that I must return to get a refund, I make a point of risking more money been wasted but they insisted once done I will be ok. There I sent all the way to China by tracking and signed service by Royal Mail which I reluctantly did for another £30.15 and just because they offered to reimburse me that too. Now more than a month has passed and package still been “assessed” at customs in China so due to no movement they say the tracking info. I provided isn’t valid and closed case in favour of the scammers! Really? after all evidence and long painful explanations provided. What can I do? I’m actually in tears of frustration as just wanted to do all the right things and do not let the scammers go away with it, just for PayPal to side with them so shame on both! Any suggestions please? Where to escalate this? I’m £100 out of pocket due not fault of my own.

[kernowlass]

@Lolita_Flamenco 

Read my post on the first page to spot these China websites that are all over Social Media showing great pictures but selling tat, avoid them !!

Firstly appeal your dispute by contacting customer services direct.

Secondly if that does not work then did you fund your paypal payment via a credit card? If so then see if your card issuer will chargeback for you, however be aware they often refuse for these type of sales worth a try though.

[Lolita_Flamenco]

I already read that and understand my mistake, though I didn’t buy impulsively and look into it many times before finally deciding given a go due their uk address and thinking returns were “easy” as advertised, however of course I ended up trusting it for the many reasons we all discussed here. No, I didn’t used a credit card but pay by the credit account with PayPal.

[Guccigirl69]

I LOST 800.00 FROM MINA HOUSE DO NOT ORDER FROM