What is actually seller protection?

[pricewizard0011]

Hi there,

Not new to Paypal but this thing about seller protection reallly starting to bother me. Well this is what happened:

Sold the item on eBay, seller opened case in resolution center (item not received) and ebay decide the case in my favor since the item was deliverd to the correct address but the item was refused from the buyer two times.Package arrived to buyer  in app 10 days and it was sent with the EMS - Express Mail Services from EU.

 Then the buyer opened the case on PayPal and after a couple of days PayPal decided in buyers favor and refunded him full amount plus shipping cost. I called PayPal since they advise me trough email that i have a APPEL button on the case page on my account (classic PayPal scam - THE BUTTON DOES NOT EXIST) and the polite voice explaned me that this case will be reopend and that the senior customer team will rewive my case. After an half of hour i received the email that the case is closed again and that is decided in buyers favor agin.

So my question is .... I did nothing wrong . I send the package on time and it was at buyers address on time. I paid for the shipping and i paid for the return shipping since the item returned to me. I lost 60$ that i spent on shipping. So how is this correct.

Can somebody explane me what i did wrong and why is this case resolved in this way? I would be happy if the PayPal gave me the money that i spend for shipping and the rest of the money PayPal should refund to buyer. I think that would be fair decision to both of us.

Thank you for the response in advance.

[DPCreations]

If I understand correctly was that you re-shipped an item the buyer did not want.  You should have refunded when you got the item the first time.

As I understand you have the item now as it was returned a second time.

[pricewizard0011]

Hi there,

No i did not re-shiped the item. USPS post officer try to deliver the item two times on 07.27 and 07.28 but the package was refused by the buyer both times. This can be seen on USPS website tracking page.

The ebay decide the case in my favore after he opened it , and then  he messeged me to that he would like me to send the package again but that he does not want to pay for the shippimg cost. In the mean time  he opened a PayPal case and i got the item back, and then Paypal decided the case in his favor and gave him money back (all of it) and i lost 60$ on shipping item to him and i paid for the return shipping so i can get my item back. I said that i am willing to shipp the item back to him but there is no reason for me to pay for another shipping cost.

So my question was if this is correct decision and what i did wrong. Thanks.

[DPCreations]

Where is the product now?

Why did you pay for more shipping rather than have the item returned after the buyer didn't want it?

Buyer does not have the product and it was not confirmed delivered to buyer.  Since tracking does not how delivery and does show return, PayPal decides in buyer's favor.

[pricewizard0011]

So basicly what you are saying is that if i sell something on eBay and when the item is at buyers door and he refuse to take the package for any of the reason i am obligated to refund him? This guy did not even opened the package so i am thinking he probaly had to pay some import charges and he did not want to do that. So i dont see how is PayPal protecting seller from this.

I paid for the return shipping so i dont loose the item. I think any norm al pearson would do the same. Is your advise that i should not pay for the return shipping and losse the item and the money that PayPal refunded?

[DPCreations]

Here is the link on seller protection:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#seller-protection

You also need to considers PayPal buyer protection here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#purchase-protection

In reality, PayPal will manage a dispute first with buyer so you need to understand buyer protection and how PayPal will deal with buyer disputes.  What happens is that PayPal will determine the buyer outcome.  When the buyer "wins" then PayPal would go to the seller protection side of the policy.  For simple disputes such as unauthorized (not your case) PayPal would refund the buyer and then reimburse the seller for the loss.  For non-delivery it's different; either the item was delivered, not delivered (lost), or returned to seller.

I found an intersting statement in the end legal section:  "Our relationship with you under this user agreement is as a payment service provider, and PayPal is an independent contractor for all purposes.  PayPal is not your agent or trustee."  PayPal does not represent the buyer any more than PayPal represents the seller; PayPal only processses that payments any handles disputes according to published policies.  So, read the entire user agreent from a legal perspective as that's what it is.  PayPal has a lot of discretion which will always be in PayPal's favor as the agreement is written to protect PayPal. 

[DPCreations]

There are risks to internet selling and you should make sure your business profit model takes those risks into consideration.

PayPal does not oversee your transactions and how you deal with customer issues.

When I buyer does not want an item and it is safely returns, the rational approach is to refund immediately so you get your seller fees reversed.  There should be no reason for PayPal to be involved with the return and refund.

There is a difference between a buyer not accepting a delivery which shows no further tracking and one which is returned. 

Each case will be treated individually by PayPal and should be treated invidually by the seller according to good accounting and business practices all within consideration of PayPal policies.

If you want to be in full control and don't use PayPal for transactions.

[pricewizard0011]

"There are risks to internet selling" - Are you sure about this?

I think you should not replay to this thread any more and here is way. I dont think you saided with PayPal i just think you have too much free time and you are using it to give very bad advises/coments. 

I was just asking politely for an opinion. I have enough years to devide right from wrong. Basicly PayPal decide in the buyers favor in 99% of the casese. The point is that they are advertising the seller protection, sending you emails to rate them to show you that they care but the truth is that they dont care at all.PayPal=MGT-Money Grabbing Trolls.

Since i am not US based i have no other option then to sell on eBay by using PayPal and you are advising me not to use PayPal? Relly??? What do you know about me...nothing!!

I am aware that i can do nothing about my current situation and the sad thing i am still traying to find a word of consolation over here.I dont really care about the money but i have my principles. The worst thing is that we are talking here about the jacket my son sold to some guy he has never seen , and that guy riped him off with the PayPal help.

I know that there is a lot of people that shere my opinion about my current situation and since i am not in the position to do anyhting about it i hope that ther will be some body that can make PayPal pay for all our trouble. BTW i never singde the contract where i agreed that PayPal can dispose with my money whatever they want.

I take this personal since  as my beloved ones are involved and you should not.  I did not want to argu or to insult you in anyway since you dont have any inpact on what is happening with this case.

Thank you for your time and have a great holiday.

[DPCreations]

I hae been polite with my responses and gave appropriate business reponses based on a lot of business education and experience.

Only you can determine the risks you are willing to take and then make them part of your business model.  PayPal cannot manage your own risks and profit models for you.

[pricewizard0011]

I never said you haven't been polite and i don't know about your education and your experience since i dont know you.

"PayPal cannot manage your own risks and profit models for you"  

• Can PayPal decide what is right and what is wrong for me ?
• Can PayPal dispose with my money as they want ?

Please advise. Thanks.