Need advice and a sanity check! Am I being scammed?

[InvaderZim]

First let me say as far as I can tell I meet all of the requirements for seller protection, but I am still concerned.  I'm just selling off some things I no longer have use for to US buyers online via ebay (I'm in the US).

So over a month ago I sold a $900 item on ebay.  The day after it was paid for I shipped the item, uploaded the tracking to ebay, etc.  I followed the tracking until the item was delivered.  A day after the item was delivered I sent the buyer a message via ebay thanking them for the purchase, asking them for feedback and let them know if they had any questions about the item to feel free to ask.  The buyer immediately (as in within minutes) responds they have no idea what I am talking about and did not purchase the item.  In a panic I immediately contact ebay, explain the situation to which they say there is possible fraud on their account and that I shouldn't worry because I will be covered under buyer protection.

So I think everything is resolved at that point.  Wrong!

So over a month goes by after that happens with me thinking everything is handled.  Then this past Thursday, on 9/1, I get an unauthorized transaction dispute from the buyer via PP and the funds are frozen in my PP account.  I immediately respond and supply the required information.  I also call PP and talk to a dispute specialist who sees I've supplied the information and informs me I will be covered under seller protection.  I also contacted ebay again and they tell me the buyer never contacted them or disputed anything with them which seemed a little suspect to me.  The next day I get an email from PP that the situation is resolved and the case is closed in my favor and my PP balance is restored.

So, again, I think everything is resolved at that point.  Nope.

Yesterday, on 9/8, I get another unauthorized transaction chargeback dispute from the buyer via PP and the funds are again frozen in my PP account.  So at this point I'm pretty upset.  It was bad enough going negative $900 last week when the funds where frozen the first time.  I thought the case was closed then.  Now I'm negative negative $900 again.  So I've done the same song and dance again; submitted the same information to dispute their chargeback claim and it is pending PP review.

I am assuming since I meet all of the conditions for seller protection under PP policies I will be OK again, but honestly I'm still scared of not only losing this $900 item, but having to pay another $900 back to PP if somehow they rule against me.

At this point I really feel like this guy is trying to scam me for several reasons.

- The guy responded right away when I originally messaged him after he received the item via ebay; I find it hard to believe, given the speed he responded to me, that he missed all the notifications about the item being bought and sold on his ebay account since he clearly got the message I sent him.

- The fact he responded right away (seriously, like minutes after I messaged him) illustrated he still had full control of his ebay account.

- He never took any action with ebay and from what they tell me, they never heard a peep from him about the transaction.

- He waited almost a month and a half before he disputed the transaction as unauthorized via PP, which seems odd considering he replied to my ebay message the day after the item was delivered to which he claimed it was unauthorized.  I don't know about you, but if I had a $900 unauthorized charge I would have taken immediate action.

- He lost the first unauthorized transaction dispute via PP and is now doing the chargeback dispute - maybe I'm missing something but if he had proof he did not make the purchase would it not have ended there?

- And the most damming of all; I did some research via public records on my own and discovered the name of person who is submitting these disputes, which was also the name of the person who purchased the item does indeed live at the address the item was shipped and delivered to.

So am I just being overly paranoid here, because this guy seems majorly suspect to me at this point and I'm worried even if I win the chargeback that still won't be the end of it.

[DPCreations]

Story is too long and confusing.

Just the facts.

Is this a single product or multiple products?

What was the product?

What is is origination point?

What is the destination?

What information was on the PayPal transaction details?

[InvaderZim]

If you took the time to read what I wrote it is hardly confusing - I laid out all of the facts in order - you are too impatient and in a rush it would appear as all the questions you asked me are answered in the first four lines of what I wrote.

How about taking the time to read what I wrote instead of flat out telling me "TL;DR" just to bump your post count?

I was hoping for some advice and/or a sanity check - not an insult, dragnet quotes and questionnaire.

if you can't do that my story will just have to be "too long and confusing" for you to understand I guess, in which case I doubt you have anything to tell me which I don't already know.

So if you have anything constructive to say please do so, otherwise you can spare me the dismissive attitude and condescension.

[lancelotme]

I have no problem following your case-

the owner of the Paypal account and credit card is filing an unauthorised transaction claiming it is not him who made the purchase.

This is not so uncommon in cyberspace,who is behind the keyboard?

It could be the person who files this chargeback,he has a case of buyer remorse ,he cant afford to pay his cc bill,or he just want to get a freebie !

It could be a member of his family who knows his password and Ebay ID and decide to buy something?

What is the item?

So he lost the Paypal dispute ,then he went to his credit card issuer and file a chargeback,PAypal will present your case and whateve you supplied them and sometimes what they have to his cc issuer.

The cc issuer will decide,if you lose,there is a chargeback fee of $20 you wil pay.

You can read PAYPAL seller protection-unauthorise transaction and see what is covered,I recall as long as you have shipped to the address on the Paypal payment notice,you are covered by Paypal,it does not have to be delivered per trackin,just that you have proved you have shipped the item is good enough .

But that was a long time ago,Paypal may have changed that.

But I think in your case,Paypal will cover your 20 chargeback fee if you lose. 

[lancelotme]

BTW,any payment $750 or more requires signature confirmation to be covered by Ebay/PAYPAL seller protection,do you have signature confirmation?

If you do,get a copy from USPS website and see who signed for it. 

[lancelotme]

1. Protection for Sellers.

11.1 PayPal Seller Protection.
PayPal Seller protection is protection we provide Sellers from Claims, Chargebacks, or Reversals that are based on:

• Unauthorized Transaction or
• Item Not Received

PayPal Seller protection is available for eligible payments from buyers in any country. However, if you sell or market to buyers outside the U.S., please read the PayPal Buyer Protection policy and PayPal Seller Protection policy of the countries in which you are selling (accessible via the “Legal” or “Legal Agreements” footer on most PayPal site pages) as these policies will apply to you as a Payment Recipient or seller.

11.2 Scope of Protection.

PayPal will protect you for the full amount of the eligible payment and waive the Chargeback Fee, if applicable. There is no limit on the number of payments for which you can receive coverage.

11.3 Eligibility Requirements.

To be eligible for PayPal Seller protection, you must meet all of the basic requirements listed below under (a) Basic Requirements. To be covered for Item Not Received protection, you must meet both the Basic Requirements and the Item Not Received Additional Requirements listed below under (b). To be covered for Unauthorized Transaction protection, you must meet both the Basic Requirements and the Unauthorized Transactions Additional Requirements listed below under (c).

1. Basic Requirements:
   • You must ship the item to the shipping address on the Transaction Details Page.
   • You must respond to PayPal's requests for documentation and other information in a timely manner.
   • The item must be a physical, tangible good that can be shipped.
   • Your primary residence, as listed in your Account, must be in the United States.
2. Item Not Received Additional Requirements:
   • For Chargebacks, the payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
   • You must provide Proof of Delivery as described below in Section 11.4.
   • If the payment is for pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, shipment is required within the timeframe specified in your item listing. Otherwise, it is recommended that you ship all items within 7 Days after receipt of payment.
3. Unauthorized Transactions Additional Requirements:
   • The payment must be marked “eligible” for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
   • You must provide Proof of Shipment or Proof of Delivery.

11.4 Proof of Shipment, Proof of Delivery and Signature Confirmation Requirements.
"Proof of Shipment" is online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:

• The date the item is shipped.
• The recipient’s address matches the shipping address provided on the Transaction Details Page.
• The recipient’s address, showing at least the city & state, or city & country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).

"Proof of Delivery" for intangible or virtual items or services is documentation satisfactory to PayPal that the item or service was provided to the buyer such as proof of download including the date of fulfillment.

NOTE: Although Purchase Protection extends coverage to buyers for intangible items, Seller Protection does not apply to intangible items. However, having proper Proof of Delivery can help a seller win a buyer’s Item Not Received Purchase Protection Claim.

 “Proof of Delivery” for tangible items is online documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:

• The item’s status as delivered.
• The date the item is delivered.
• The recipient address is the same as in the shipping address section on the Transaction Details Page.
• The recipient's address, showing at least the city & state, or city & country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).
• Signature Confirmation as described below if the full amount of the payment including shipping and taxes is $750 USD or more or its foreign currency equivalent provided below:

850 Australian Dollar (AUD)	950 New Zealand Dollar (NZD)
1,750 Brazilian Real (BRL)	4,600 Norwegian Krone (NOK)
850 Canadian Dollar (CAD)	34,000 Philippine Peso (PHP)
15,000 Czech Republic Koruna (CZK)	2,300 Polish New Zloty (PLN)
4,100 Danish Krone (DKK)	450 Pound Sterling – United Kingdom (GBP)
550 Euro (EUR)	950 Singaporean Dollar (SGD)
6,000 Hong Kong Dollar (HKD)	4,950 Swedish Krona (SEK)
170,000 Hungarian Forint (HUF)	700 Swiss Franc (CHF)
2,700 Israeli Shekel (ILS)	23,000 Taiwan New Dollar (TWD)
77,000 Japanese Yen (JPY)	24,500 Thai Baht (THB)
10,000 Mexican New Peso (MXN)

"Signature Confirmation" is online documentation that can be viewed at the shipping company’s website and indicates that the item was signed for on delivery.

11.5 Items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection. The following are items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection.

• Intangible items, including Digital Goods, and services.
• Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
• Items that you deliver in person, including in connection with In-Store Checkout.
• PayPal Direct Payments.
• Virtual Terminal Payments.
• PayPal Business Payments.
• Items equivalent to cash including gift cards.

Items that are not shipped to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery.

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12. Resolution Procedures for Unauthorized Transactions, Remittance Transfer Errors and Other Errors.

(Previously called the Electronic Funds Transfer Rights and Error Resolution Policy)

12.1 Protection for Unauthorized Transactions and Other Errors. When an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error occurs in your Account, including Unauthorized Transactions that occur because your PayPal Debit Card or PayPal Mobile-activated phone has been lost or stolen, PayPal will cover you for the full amount of every eligible Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error as long as you follow the procedures discussed below in Section 12.2. If you add a Closed Loop gift card to your Account, but this card does not act as a funding source in your Account, then any use of this card is not considered a transaction in your Account. Accordingly, any Unauthorized Transaction, Other Error, or Remittance Transfer Error on this gift card is not PayPal’s responsibility and you are not covered under any PayPal protection programs.

An "Unauthorized Transaction" is a type of error that occurs when money is sent from your Account that you did not authorize and that did not benefit you. For example, if someone steals your password, uses the password to access your Account, and sends a payment from your Account, an Unauthorized Transaction has occurred. If you give someone access to your Account (by giving them your login information) and they conduct transactions without your knowledge or permission, you are responsible for any resulting use. Such transactions are not considered Unauthorized Transactions and are not covered under any PayPal protection programs.

In addition, "Other Errors" occur when money is either incorrectly taken from your Account or incorrectly placed into your Account, or when transactions are incorrectly recorded in your Account. Other Errors that are covered by PayPal are limited to the following events: if you send a payment and it is incorrectly debited from your Account; if an incorrect amount is credited to your Account; if a transaction is missing from or not properly identified in your Account statement; if you receive an incorrect amount of money at an ATM; and if there is a computational or mathematical error by PayPal. Unauthorized Transactions and Other Errors do not include Disputes, Claims, Chargebacks, and Reversals. You agree that PayPal is authorized to handle Disputes, Claims, Chargebacks, and Reversals as set forth in this Agreement, and that no determination made by PayPal or a card issuer with respect to a Dispute, Claim, Chargeback or Reversal will be considered an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error. Routine inquiries about your Account balance or the status of a pending transfer into or out of your Account are not considered Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors unless you expressly notify us of an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error in connection with the transfer. Requests for information for tax or other recordkeeping purposes and requests for duplicate documentation also are not deemed to be Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors.

PayPal also covers you for Remittance Transfer Errors as long as you follow the procedures discussed below in Section 12.5.

You may request documentation or information regarding your Account or transaction to determine whether an Unauthorized Transaction, Other Error or a Remittance Transfer Error exists by contacting us through the “Contact” or “Contact Us” link at the bottom of each page of the PayPal website.

12.2 Notification Requirements.

1. You should immediately notify PayPal if you believe:

   1. there has been an Unauthorized Transaction, unauthorized access to your Account, or the occurrence of an Other Error;

   2. there is an error in your Account statement (you can access your Account statement by logging into your Account) or your transaction confirmation sent to you by email;

   3. your password or PayPal Mobile PIN has been compromised;

   4. your PayPal Debit Card or PayPal Mobile-activated phone has been lost, stolen or deactivated; or

   5. you need more information about a transaction listed on the statement or transaction confirmation.

2. To be eligible for 100% protection for Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors in your Account, you must notify us within 60 Days after any Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error first appears in your Account statement. If you do not notify us within 60 days, you may not get back any money you lost after the 60 days if we can prove that we could have stopped someone from taking the money if you had notified us in time. We will extend the 60 Day time period if a good reason, such as a hospital stay, kept you from notifying us within 60 Days.
   
   You should regularly log into your Account and review your Account statement to ensure that there has not been an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error. PayPal will also send an email to the primary email address you have provided in order to notify you of each transaction from your Account, unless you have opted out of receiving certain notifications. You should also review these transaction confirmations to ensure that each transaction was authorized and is accurate.
   
   For Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors involving your PayPal Debit Card, notify us as follows:
   1. Log into your Account, go to the "Account Overview" page or “Summary” or “Activity” tab, select the transaction details for the transaction you wish to dispute and then follow the directions. Please print and sign the completed form, then mail it to us (PayPal, Attn: PayPal Debit Card Department, P.O. Box 45950, Omaha, NE 68145-0950) or send it by fax to (303) 395-2855; or
   2. Telephone PayPal Customer Service at Go to https://www.paypal.com/help and click "Call Us".
   For Unauthorized Transactions or Other Errors in your Account, notify us as follows:
   1. Use this form to file an error report in the PayPal Resolution Center; or
   2. Write to PayPal, Attn: Error Resolution Department, P.O. Box 45950, Omaha, NE 68145-0950; or
   3. Telephone PayPal Customer Service at Go to https://www.paypal.com/help and click "Call Us".
   When you notify us, provide us with all of the following information:
   1. Your name and email address registered to your Account;
   2. A description of any suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error and an explanation as to why you believe it is incorrect or why you need more information to identify the transaction; and
   3. The dollar amount of any suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error.

If you notify us orally, we may require that you send us your complaint or question in writing within 10 Business Days. During the course of our investigation, we may request additional information from you.

12.3 PayPal Actions after Receipt of Your Notification. Once you notify us of any suspected Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error, or we otherwise learn of one, we will do the following:

• We will conduct an investigation to determine whether there has been an Unauthorized Transaction or Other Error that is eligible for protec

[sharpiemarker]

Just provide PP the information required to be covered under Seller Protection for Unauthorized Use Chargebacks (not PP dispute).  Don't matter if you win or lose the chargeback itself (cc refunds buyer), that is PP problem.

[InvaderZim]

Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone.  I appreciate it.

So I do not have proof of signature for the item, but I do have proof of delivery.  I am concerned about this aspect and apparently I should have payed closer attention to the details for which I am at fault.

I communicated with the buyer again last night and he has now informed me that he is actually in possession of the item.

He claims eBay notified him of a "possible" fraudulent purchase on his account based on the IP address the purchase was made from.  And he actually received the item and has admited that he currently has it in his possession via my communication with him on eBay.

He claims that eBay told him to keep the item until such times as they notify him and instruct him what to do with the item.

I contacted eBay again this morning and they reaffirmed that they have had zero communication with this individual regarding the transaction.  They also told me they would never instruct a buyer to keep an item indefinitely (they said that was against their policies) never mind the fact they have had zero communication with this person.  He has never disputed the transaction with them or contact them about it as I previously mentioned.

I have of course relayed this information to PayPal.

I am pretty convienced this guy is trying to pull a scam at this point.

In summary, he represented to me that the purchase was fraudulent and never contacted me again about it.  He didn't contact eBay either.  Then a little over a month later he is trying to reverse the transaction via PayPal and now via chargeback - all while admitting he has the item and is supposedly waiting on eBay to tell him what to do with it - nevermind eBay has no record of any communication with him regarding the sale.

At this point if I lose the charge back I feel like I will have to file criminal complaints and seek civil action against this person as he will have my item and have defrauded my PayPal account by $900.  I'm not sure how viable of an option that is for me, but at this point the guy is clearly lying to my face as in my conversations with him he repeatly claims he is talking to eBay about this yet they have zero record of it.

[lancelotme]

I know your buyer open a chargeback with his cc issuer and you have been asked to furnish information on the case-

-do you still have the PAYPAL email notification when he purchased the item,see if it said qualify or partially qualify for protection,if it qualifies,then all you have to do is to show Paypal you have shipped the item,the rest would be Paypal to face the outcome.

if you cant find the email,then go to Paypal and find the transaction and click on details,it should tell you if it qualifies for seller protection.

-at this point,you dont need signature confirmation,just proof you have shipped to the address on the transaction page.

-you can also add the email correspondence you have with the buyer last night that he admitted having the item to Paypal to win the chargeback,all the stuff about Ebay telling him what to do is BS he made up .

-it sounds like your buyer is chickening out,but he does know what he is talking about,the IP address,the dispute and then the chargeback.

Most Ebay buyers tend to file dispute with Ebay first,if they lose,then they go to Paypal and then chargeback with cc issuer.

Some reasons they dont go to EBay is either they have filed too many disputes with Ebay or they have lost their buyer protection.

Paypal won a chargeback for me once with a buyer in UK who filed item not received,I forwarded an email from the buyer to Paypal ,in that email she said I have the item,I just paid customs duty yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!  

Go figure !

[lancelotme]

Also,sometimes calling the  buyer can produce good results,you can go to Ebay and pull his phone number and call him.

Ebay has a feature where either buyer or seller of that transaction can get the other party's phone number