Paypal resolution center....extremely poor customer service

winnimports
Contributor
Contributor

This is my issue with the paypal resolution center decision.

 

2 months ago I purchsed a taxidermied deer head from Ebay Germany.
 When the item was delivered it was riddled with mold, the hair was falling out, it had large bold spots and dead beetles could be seen in the hairs.

 

I took pictures and contacted the seller and send the pictures to the seller. She was a little defensive but agreed for me to send the item back.

 

At the time I send the item back I also opened a case in Paypal (12/20/2012) for item not described as the listing or the picture in the listing did not disclose any of these defects and I declared I wanted a full refund . I do not expect these things to be perfect but this item was disgusting and having this in your house would make you sick.

 

When the item arrived at the sellers she complained that the item was damaged and that she would give me a partial refund(?) if she would get any money from the insurance(?). Also she would deduct money from the refund for the import tax (it was shipped as a return so no tax(?)), the shipping (which I paid(??!!) and the trouble she had to go through (??). I packed it the same way I received it.

 

At the same day as the item arrived at the sellers Paypal decided the case in favor of the seller.

 

I contacted Paypal for an explanation of the decision and they told me that there was no proof that I shipped the item back. The tracking number I provided was not good enough and I needed more shipping and delivery proof that the item was shipped to the seller. I was told to call back when I had the information. They could not tell me excactely what they would consider proper proof.

 

When I contacted Paypal the next day with the electronic receipt from USPS the paypal customer service rep told me that the claim was denied for a different reason that had nothing to do with the delivery confirmation. I told him I send the item back and he responded that I took it upon myself to send it back and it was my fault(????). He told me that this was an animal that lives in the woods and therefor these defects were normal and expected. I told him I am a hunter and have several mounts in my house but non were riddled with mold and beetles (not ticks). The sales rep became very arrogant and refused to let me finish and even refused to put me through to a supervisor or manager telling me that they would tell me the same  and that there were probably no supervisors available anyway(?). After a heated argument, he even raised his voice. Finally he told me he would put me through. After a wait of several mintues the customer service rep came back on the phone again telling me that I they would let me appeal and they would take a look at the delivery info and contact me with they needed more info. He had suddenly changed his tone and was overly friendly.  I asked if I needed to upload the USPS receipt with the shipping address and the tracking number, the customer service rep told me that was not nessecary, I uploaded it anyway with some pics of the mount.

 

Today I recived a message that the ruled in favor of the seller again because of the following reason:

 

Quote: "I reviewed your documents and have to tell you that the proof of shipment was not legible. Therefor we can not work your appeal".

 

Are you kidding me, the shipping info was an official electronic invoice I received from USPS and I forwarded with out any changes, so why would it be not legible. This invoice is good enough for the IRS but not paypal? It had the shipping address and the delivery address on it and the tracking number! The seller even signed for acceptance!!

 

I am very dissapointed and upset about how this was handled and I am asking myself these questions:

 

-Why is it ok for a product, any product to be riddled with mold, this is not a piece of blue cheese for crying out loud!!

 

-Why is it ok for a seller not to disclose any major defects?

 

-Why did they not tell me which information or proof they need?

 

-Why can't they tell me how to handle a case like this because I asked what I could do different time next time but they could not answer that.

 

-Why did paypal not contact me and request a new invoice or more info, That is what they told me and it is on their website?

 

-I have no mount and I lost all my money.

 

-Why does paypal tell me that I took it upon myself to send the mount back and therefor I am at fault? Paypal encourgages buyers to work out a solution with the seller and I did. I was instructed by the seller to send back the mount!!

 

-Why was I not allowed to talk directly to a supervisor or manager?

 

-Why did the give 2 different reason for denying the claim?

 

-Why did it take more then 30 days to come up with a decision for the first claim and close it on the same day as the item arrives in Austria.

 

-Why was I told that did not needed to upload any receipts or proof? Did they already make a decision and they just let me appeal to quiet me down?

 

-Why was this customer service rep trying to bully me to accept the decision?

 

-Why did paypal give a customer of mine a refund a month ago while the order was stuck in customs and got delivered a week after the refund? He got a the order and his money back and I got neither.

 


I am a power seller and top rated seller on Ebay so I am not new to this and this is extremely poor service.

 

Shame on you paypal!

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16 REPLIES 16

Kritsada
Contributor
Contributor

Not a new case.. Paypal support actually gives out dispute reasons according to how they want to give it.

I wonder if they even have guideline on how to solve problems.

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sasee
Contributor
Contributor

Paypal is terrible. They are holding all my funds pending the outcome of a dispute, but they never bothered to inform me of this. It doesn't seem fair that they can do this before hearing both sides.

Do I have to use paypal with my ebay account? Are there any other options ?

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starglitch
Contributor
Contributor

i agree with you am having kind of same probllem now i bought parts for my mercedes benz seller sent me wrong year mine is 1998 i told them sent me a 2000 year and not even my other parts still waitng on them email them no reply to when there coming so i dispute this and now paypal wants me to pay 250.00 dollars to send back to seller i paid 750.00 dollars so am going to be out of parts 250.00 dollars so you tell me is this all my fault or what out of parts and money i know how you feel no customer service here just for sellers whats up here who we contact higher to help us bbb help plz i have not shipped item back yet dont know what to do 

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PayPal_Frank
Administrator
Administrator

Hi everyone,

 

We appreciate your feedback.  I know the dispute process is very frustrating for both parties. 😞  It's never a fun situation when there's a transaction issue and an investigation must be completed.  We want every transaction to be successful with a happy buyer and a happy seller.  In these situations, both the buyer and the seller are PayPal customers and we find ourselves in a situation where we're hearing two different stories.  We want to do the right thing and we also want to remain objective in our reviews. This means that we may have to request documentation to verify information that is being provided.

 

For tracking requirements, it can depend on the country but in most cases we need to see online tracking results that show delivery to the city, state and/or postal code.  If the payment is for more than $250 USD (for USD transactions) we need to see signature confirmation.  These requirements are in place for both sellers and buyers.

 

I know you have already reached out to Customer Support for help without success but as these forums are designed for member to member help, I must recommend contacting Customer Support.  We're also happy to help via twitter.  We may have other options we can pursue from a purely customer service perspective.

 

If these situations were not resolved to your satisfaction please give us another chance to make things right.  I hope that a solution has already been found by now.

 

- Frank

If you see a helpful post, please accept it as a solution or give the author kudos. 🙂 Thanks!
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TV_journalist
Contributor
Contributor

@PayPal_Frank wrote:
... We want every transaction to be successful with a happy buyer and a happy seller.  In these situations, both the buyer and the seller are PayPal customers and we find ourselves in a situation where we're hearing two different stories.  We want to do the right thing and we also want to remain objective in our reviews. This means that we may have to request documentation to verify information that is being provided.

 

For tracking requirements, it can depend on the country but in most cases we need to see online tracking results that show delivery to the city, state and/or postal code.  If the payment is for more than $250 USD (for USD transactions) we need to see signature confirmation.  These requirements are in place for both sellers and buyers.

 

...

If these situations were not resolved to your satisfaction please give us another chance to make things right.  I hope that a solution has already been found by now.

 

- Frank


This is meant as feedback. I am not a seller and my only buying has been a couple of things to test the Paypal handling for writing a report of a couple of different types of transactions including obvious scams.

 

My impressions are:

 

PayPal resolution works best when there is a honest disagreement between the buyer and seller - perhaps because there was misunderstandings or errors or shipping problems, etc. PayPal is ill-prepared to resolve cases well where either the buyer or seller is intentionally trying to scam - the very type of case where the buyer or seller protection is required.

 

It does not help that the automated claim handling online is brain-dead and misrepresents that it has been reviewed by people. I have documentation from a scam case where clearly no human was involved because I was asked to ship to what is clearly an invalid address (which would be obvious to any human reviewing as claimed in the response) with the only other choice being canceling the claim in that dispute, which is clearly unacceptable. My entry of NONE for the tracking number was "reviewed by a claims expert" to wait for the shipping to reach which is of course an automated process and no human ever read the details/comments attached to it.

 

Some of the detailed reports here seem to suggest that calling Customer Support doesn't necessarily help. In these cases support people seem to take the easiest way out for the resolution with the goal of closing it as soon as possible rather  than decide on the merits of the case even if it means taking the side of the scammer in such cases (they could be buyers or sellers). This may be a support personnel training problem if not a company encouraged environment/policy/incentivization that encourages quick closures of cases at the expense of fairness but it certainly doesn't help the customer to receive that kind of service.

 

I am completely sympathetic to the problems faced by PayPal to not have a great solution for this because the target market it addresses containes a lot of scammers intent on exploiting the system to scam. Besides, there are way too many people that are utterly naive about these things and/or expect PayPal to bail them out from their bad/foolish decisions but that is partly encouraged by the Buyer/Seller Protection guarantees that seems to over-promise and under-deliver.

 

I am not sure such a business is sustainable as more and more people experience this and at some point I am afraid that group becomes large enough to publicly give PayPal a bad public reputation that it can never get out of, so it would be in PayPal's interests to revamp the process from the top. It is not difficult to find disgruntled/dissatisfied customers of PayPal to talk to for any investigation.

 

While honest and diligent support personnel can and do help, I suspect that the problem is more organizational and procedural and needs to be fixed from several pay grades above the support personnel.

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starglitch
Contributor
Contributor

am no scammer just want what order and paid for sellers are the one that are trying to take us since paypal is favoring them so i gave him the right year 1998 mercedes benz ml320 he send me for 2000 mercedes ml430 so tell me whos wrong here me buyer or seller but they chose him seller me take a loss and no other parts as well just got one part not all my other stuff i paid for so they said send this part back we give you a refund so i i send back am also out of that part plus my money and parts that never got so am lost every thing here this is so bogus am going to get legal help here and see if ebay can get another place for us to pay threw besides paypal they dont look at i have not even recived my other parts as well just send back give you refund what about my **bleep**ing 250.00 i lose out on i i do that and my other parts come paypal wake up you see the picture here 

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TV_journalist
Contributor
Contributor

@starglitch wrote:

 so i gave him the right year 1998 mercedes benz ml320 he send me for 2000 mercedes ml430 so tell me whos wrong here


How was this communication done? E-mail? Phone? Did you have any copy of sent e-mail or whatever that shows what information you "gave him"? If so, did you give this proof to PayPal for the dispute and they still decided for the seller?

 

Obviously, we don't know the full story here. But as you can imagine, the two cases one, where you could document what your order exactly was and the other where you cannot are completely different in how they may be handled. N one can tell you whether you were wronged or not without that information.

 

If you don't have some kind of written proof either as part of the order or an e-mail sent copy, then it simply becomes your word against the seller. Not sure how PayPal can decide one way or the other. Not saying this was the case but if it was, then you cannot necessarily blame PayPal. PayPal resolution is not good at solving such cases and they will take the easiest route.

 

If you do have such proof then make sure PayPal Customer support knows this and ask them why the restocking fee is being applied and you can take further action based on their answer. If you had paid through a credit card and you can document that you had given the right information, you can use the credit card chargeback and make the seller responsible for having the part shipped back at his expense. If you did not use a credit card, the you only have PayPal to resolve this.

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starglitch
Contributor
Contributor

no i did send them emails but i will now thx try that but dont think it will work but i see

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donnaday
Member
Member

i couldnt agree more...paypal is so not cool..its so hard to do business with them

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