Paypal refund to customer without asking them to return

[AlphaFur]

My customer bought $4500 metal legs from us and paid with credit card.  Since we used Paypal as our credit card processor. Then they claimed that these did not work. So they filed with Paypal saying these products were breaking. BTW, we sell many of these items each year with no problems.

But paypal just refunded the buyer in full without asking the buyer to return the products! So buyer did not even return the products! That we can still sell to the other customers.

We immediately disputed with paypal, but paypal would not do anything instead ask us to sue them in small claims court. The problem is the customer is not local. 

We think this is bad business with paypal. Paypal should be fair and protect our interest as well. If they are not sure, they should let customer file small claims... at least return all the goods to us. 

I think paypal made a lot of money off our account and should take some responsibility.

What do you suggest we do? How can we get our money back???  

Thank you for your concern.

[DPCreations]

I think there are details missing.

Did the customer contact you for resolution before filing claim with the credit card bank?

Does you selling site accept returns?

[AlphaFur]

The customer contacted us prior to contact paypal about our products are failing, we asked them to return. But they did not return, instead, they filed the claim with paypal/credit card company.

A very dishonest customer, and we knew these metal legs were used by my customer in a hotel in Los Angeles as they told us before. This is stealing!  I really don't think that paypal should just refund them our hard owned money of $4500 without asking them to prove that all items were returned.

Now it is hard to claim anything back.  I think paypal should take some responsibility or they should go after the dishonest buyer and give us some money back.

What should I do?  Thank you.

[DPCreations]

When a buyer contacts a business about a product issue it is important for the business to resolve and negotiate a settlement with the buyer.  Each case is an individual case to solve.

If you want to be totally in control of refunds, then you'll need to get paid direct and not use a credit card processor.  When you use a 2nd or 3rd part for transfers you resolve issues by their rules.

[Whac-A-Mole]

---

@DPCreations wrote:

When a buyer contacts a business about a product issue it is important for the business to resolve and negotiate a settlement with the buyer.  Each case is an individual case to solve.

If you want to be totally in control of refunds, then you'll need to get paid direct and not use a credit card processor.  When you use a 2nd or 3rd part for transfers you resolve issues by their rules.

---

they are scamming her,she has asked them to return the items,but they did not .

this goes into the same Hall of SCAM as the 18 barstools saga where the bar owner ordered 18 bar stools and said they dont fit ,Ebay sent him a return shipping label which is USPS  and he printed it 3 times and used it to ship 3 boxes ,USPS returned them all back to him.

-anther case was a used Rolex watch sold by a store in business for 60 years,buyer wishes to return so they sent a call tag ala Fed Exp.

It came back weighing light,sothey called the police and open the box,no watch so they file police report,Ebay said refund in 3 days or else we will do it,we are talking 24k.

then comes recently a 500 lb motor ,buyer return an empty USPS priority envelope.

then there is this guy selling a used ice making machine to some one who managed to **bleep** him on the shipping address and got the machine free.

He tracked it down and went there with a policeman with warrant,it was sitting right in front of a food stand,the serial number checked out,they repo the machine and took the guy to court.

then there is this guy who ordered a brand new A./C unit and returned a box of scrap metal.

then a seller sold a roll of uncirculated morgan city silver coins to another dealer,he returned the paper but not the coins.

Feel free to add more. 

You get the picture,to make America Great Again,you have to procure your equipment and inventory at a low low price,like zero$$

[DPCreations]

@Whac-A-Mole

It may be a scam; that is not the issue that concerns me.

My concern is that the seller is NOT disclosing all the details about the transaction and discussions with the buyer.  There are various ways to handle customer relations and issues and we have no idea what really transpired between this seller and buyer as seller does not practice full disclosure.

[AlphaFur]

The question is how ebay and paypal together should be notified, and when there is a dispute, do not give the money back to the buyer so easily. Otherwise, paypal should be responsible.

Did you hear anybody try to sue for the money back?

[DPCreations]

I went back to look at some of the original discussion.

The buyer claimed the product failed.  This implies the product was defective. (Whether true or not is not relevant because the seller cannot prove it.)

So, what should a seller do?  Typically, a small seller would pay for return shipping of a defective product.

As a seller, I would look at business options and try to figure out the least expensive business option.  This is where discussion with a buyer is critical; I do such discussions by phone so I can figure out the real problem.  Sometimes partial refunds will be sufficient to appease the buyer.  Sometimes paying for the return so the item can be re-sold is an option.

Since none of this happened, the buyer, quite expectedly files for a refund and won, as the buyer continued to not work with the buyer for a resolution.

Is it fair?  Well, it doesn't really matter because such decisions are not based on fairness but on payment service policies.

In this case the option to fight with the buyer was the most expensive business option.

[Whac-A-Mole]

---

@AlphaFur wrote:

The customer contacted us prior to contact paypal about our products are failing, we asked them to return. But they did not return, instead, they filed the claim with paypal/credit card company.

A very dishonest customer, and we knew these metal legs were used by my customer in a hotel in Los Angeles as they told us before. This is stealing!  I really don't think that paypal should just refund them our hard owned money of $4500 without asking them to prove that all items were returned.

Now it is hard to claim anything back.  I think paypal should take some responsibility or they should go after the dishonest buyer and give us some money back.

What should I do?  Thank you.

---

so what did your buyer do?

did they file a dispute of item not as described with Paypal or DID THEY FILE A CHARGEBACK WITH THEIR CREDIT CARD?

Do you know the difference between the two?

were you ever notify by Paypal to respond?

[AlphaFur]

They filed charge back. So paypal gave all the money back and even $20 chargeback fee. 😞  Paypal asked me to respond, we responded within the time frame and asked the buyer to return the products that they paid $4500 for. But they did not and instead these metal legs were used in a Los Angeles hotel.

The question is now really how should I proceed to get the $4500 money back from Paypal. I plan to write to VP of Paypal, but there is not even a physical address on the paypal site. Only emails or phone no. which is not going anywhere.

Any input?