Significantly Not As Described return for refund....if buyer pays for return shipping

namestreetcity
Contributor
Contributor

According to the Paypal process when you file a claim for an item that is significantly not as described, you must return the item at your cost in order for Paypal to issue a refund for the amount you paid, not the return shipping costs. You have 10 days to provide Paypal with a tracking number. Paypal doesn't allow you to post a reply. You send the item back or in 10 days the claim is closed.

 

Buyers are being forced to pay to received goods the seller didn't described accurately, and in some cases, honestly.

 

I think that is wrong.

 

When you can prove that an item is significantly not as described, then Paypal should refund your entire costs of the item including shipping both ways. Sellers can take advantage of Paypal's forcing buyers to pay for return shipping.

 

If a buyer doesn't like something or changes their mind, and wants to return it, then the return shipping should be paid by the buyer.

 

 

 

 

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181 REPLIES 181

Capteggman65
Contributor
Contributor

EXACTLY   I AGREE

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fish-n-boo
Contributor
Contributor

In my listings I state that the buyer is responsible for the return shipping however when a customer had buyers remorse and said there was a problem (which I don't feel there was) i agreed to refund their money. they  filed a claim and paypal held the funds and I had to pay the shipping both ways! I was held ranso between paypal and the threat of bad feedback. Thank goodness it was an inexpensive item but I certainly got the short end of it. So it is not always fair for the sellers either. The buyers have more control. If a buyer is bad the seller can't even let ppl know by leaving negative feedback for the buyer as that is not allowed which makes the whole feedback thing one sided

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pittypants
Contributor
Contributor

I agree with the feedback issue, its one sided for sure. The buyers have more rights than the sellers do.  The buyers love to hang this over the sellers head.  And seem to get there money back for whatever reason.

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shadowstreaker
Contributor
Contributor

Sorry, PittyPants, but I'm going to disagree with you - it's a problem for both sides.

Originally, the sellers had the big advantage in that eBay allowed them to wait until the buyer posted their feedback and as such, held it over a buyer's head that if a negative was posted then they'd get a negative in return. This lead to a lot of bad sellers and lots of complaints from buyers that got stuck with bad items and couldn't complain to identify these bad sellers as then they'd get low ratings and then sellers wouldn't accept their bids for items on their auctions. 

 

The buyer is supposed to pay, and to pay promptly, usually within a certain number of days and that is what the seller's feedback is supposed to represent.  The seller then is supposed to provide the listed item, as described and that is what the buyer is supposed to base their feedback on regarding the seller.  If buyers pay promptly, then they should get good feedback promptly and without waiting for the buyer to recieve the item.  If the buyer doesn't pay or pay promptly, then they should get unpaid hits and negative feedback ratings.  If sellers don't provide the items as described and don't work out the problem then they could get a negative feedback and the only response they can have is to explain what went wrong and can't give a negative since feedback for a seller involves their responsibilities, not the buyers responsibility - which involves payment for the item. 

 

Now of course, cheaters on both sides can misuse the system and there are cheaters on both sides, they exist everywhere - politicians, CEO's, etc.  The hope is that the cheaters get exposed quickly and that the eBay/PayPal claims reviewers can fairly decide the difference when there is a legitimate problem with a transaction and that of someone gaming the system. 

 

There's a lot of bad sellers on eBay and a lot of bad buyers.  Both groups don't know how to read and write nor examine a listing properly to ensure it represents as much as it should disclose about the item listed which will lead to issues for each.  Good sellers and good buyers occasionally have a problem but usually recognize and acknowledge such mistakes and correct them as best they can.  Just like real businesses, there's going to be a certain amount of loss for both parties but good honest people hopefully don't take a hit too often and have many more good transactions than bad ones.  Hopefully...

 

Unfortunately, the only way to totally eliminate NSAD or DOA, etc, is if items, after an auction is completed, are first sent to eBay to examine the item and then if they check out are then forwarded onto the buyer.  Can't be done due to the expense of such a system and so the evolvement of this system continues.  We can only keep trying and hoping that only good honest people use eBay and that the system will allow honest mistakes to be corrected without bad feelings for both parties, and yet, expose dishonest ones and prevent them from taking advantage of the good people making straight forward, satisfying transactions.

 

It's always tough for those that are usually mostly just sellers or just buyers on eBay to consider the system from both sides and often feel they're disadvantaged by the rulings.

That's not to say there aren't bad eBay/PayPal claims reviewers and that they're not doing their jobs properly, there's always workers that aren't being watched or reviewed to ensure they are carrying out their duties and the rules properly.  I've encountered and read others complaints that based on their versions would lead one to say the system let them down and sided with the wrong person.  Only good management can prevent this by sampling and evaluating a number of each workers final decisions and then coming back to them after an appeal and weeding out bad workers if the review shows they failed to properly research the claim.

 

Anyways, it's a jungle out here and complaints are good as long as one looks at both sides of the issue honestly and with understanding.

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pace1025
Contributor
Contributor

No offense but Paypal DOESNT listen to both sides. Most times in conjunction with eBay they side with the buyer. I was told in plain english many times "sellers loosing money is part of the business model". Funny how eBay and Paypal dont like loosing money - ala the new "We will hold %10 of your funds for 60 days with no interest to insure we dont loose policy". The mafia give you better terms then they do.

 

Paypal also clearly has NO idea how the USPS system works. They discourage you from using First Class mail and push you to Priority and Express as they get a cut of the funds. First Class international shipments are not considered "delivered" if a customer says they never got it - especially since USPS is as clear as mud on these things. Who wants to spend $30 to ship a $100 item by Priority Mail when First Class is $10?

 

Paypal and eBay clearly think that thier continued loss of revenue can be solved by abusing sellers. Why have a return policy on eBay if Paypal overrides it all the time? Why come up with new standards that sellers must adhere to when its clear that 99% of the time "buyers win". Thier lame excuse that thier policy mirrors standard credit card policies is vague and doesnt hold water. Sellers loose %8 on ebay, %2 on Paypal and can loose even more when buyers pull a switch on you (happened to me many times) or when they break things then claim they got it like that. Continued abuse of sellers makes them go to Amazon. I have already shifted alot of my business there and will continue to shift more of it as time goes on.  Ebay and Paypal put NO onus on the buyer and its getting out of control. Are there abusive sellers? YES, Are there abusive buyers? Not according to Paypal.

 

I currently have a case where a guy bought something (headphone) 3 weeks ago then magically discovered it broke (after it fell off his girlfriends head and he glued it). Paypals answer? Silence followed by "well if the BUYER says so then it MUST BE". never mind  the maddening trail of automated messages when trying to get a human being (must be tough to find them in Nebraska where thier call center is located) . I recieved not 1 email from the customer, not 5 emails, not 10, but 14. Each one was abusive, in CAPS LIKE THIS, demanding, rude and insulting .. Anyone wanna guess what Paypals take is on this ?  I have his emails as proof that he admited he broke it (in his first email) .. Wanna guess what Paypal said?

 

While there are alot of GOOD ebayers, this customer is not one of them, and Paypal cant seem to figure out who is bad and who is good. (What kind of training do thier CS people get?) I have over 1500 positives, my buyer less then 10% of that yet .. once again Paypal makes ME eat the stuff he broke ...

 

Will I reccomend to people that they should use Paypal .... NEVER, will I continue to use them .. only because I have no choice at this point.

 

 

 

 

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brubble01
Member
Member

Same song, different verse.  The paypal dispute resolution process is a complete joke from beginning to end. Basically paypal is going to look at the sellers account and see how much money they make and find in favor of the seller. Paypal is almost always going to find in favor of the seller because that is their meal ticket, plain and simple. In the rare instance they do decide the buyer is entitled to a refund the buyer has to pay for the return shipping, which is completely wrong. The seller of the "significantly not as described" item should have to pay for the return shipping as well as the total price of the item including all shipping charges. If paypal says that you can return the item for refund and pay the shipping supposedly you will get a "full refund." Of course that "full refund" will not include shipping charges either way, so the buyer loses money no matter what they do. The seller doesn't even have to respond to any of paypals notices or messages for the resolution process to find in their favor, it's a complete joke. If a buyer files a dispute and then later escalates it to a claim the best they can possibly hope for is to only lose the return shipping charges. It appears that anytime you purchase anything on ebay or pay for anything with paypal you are taking a chance on getting **bleep**ed, plain and simple. There is no recourse whatsoever.

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sandypurins
Advisor
Advisor

 


@brubble01 wrote:

Basically paypal is going to look at the sellers account and see how much money they make and find in favor of the seller.


 

 

No... that is definitely not true... buyers often win SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) claims and chargebacks.

 


@brubble01 wrote:
If paypal says that you can return the item for refund and pay the shipping supposedly you will get a "full refund." Of course that "full refund" will not include shipping charges either way, so the buyer loses money no matter what they do.


 

The buyer will receive a full refund of the original payment... the buyer will not be reimbursed for return shipping... PayPal cannot force the seller to refund more than the original payment amount. Note... a good seller will refund the buyer's return shipping in a SNAD situation.

 

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shadowstreaker
Contributor
Contributor

Brubbles01 - you're making a statement that is very wrong in stating that eBay/PayPal basically will only side with buyers, especially if they are high volume sellers.  Not true.  I've had a number of items that I bought that had problems and eBay/PayPal did not side with the sellers even though they had large sales numbers and I've talked with a number of sellers that would dispute your statement as well.

 

Yes there are problems and the return shipping costs for significantly not as described is the focus of this forum topic.  If you read through the various topics and threads you will see sellers claiming that they are being abused and you will see buyers claiming the same thing.  A lot of the claims of abuse may be because sellers aren't taking care and time to properly examine their items and the listing for the items before posting and leave themselves open to creating a problem when the buyer doesn't get what was described.  On the other hand many buyers don't read very well and make assumptions without asking questions before bidding.

 

And there are recourses despite your statement to the contrary.  I've used them and gotten results by following through with those recourses.  Make sure you read the policies and have all your evidence in order and you should have good results IF you are need to make a claim and not just venting because you had a claim and didn't win.

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janettesawyer
New Community Member

Purchased item from WWW.bootsale .com. Cannot contact buyer. Goods arrived Wednesday 9.12.09, about to wrap for christmas opresent but only one boot in box. Can you help me to contact seller. Thanks

Janette

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shadowstreaker
Contributor
Contributor

Really confused why you're posting here...and no details about how you paid, etc.


First off, it appears that www.bootsale .com isn't a footwear site but a catch all domain that tries to take advantage of similar name URL's.  It mentions tire/car boots which is an item for locking up a vehicle's tire to prevent a car from being moved, kind of like a steering wheel lock (easily defeated) for keeping someone from stealing the car since you can't steer.

 

So we don't know what the site is you ordered from, don't know how you paid, and one might assume you used PayPal but since you aren't providing good information it can't be taken for granted.  Did you even google the company for customer reviews or customer service phone numbers before you ordered?  If it is a reputable company then you should have a packing slip or receipt that came with the product that provides the company's name, address, etc, and include a phone number or customer service email address.

 

If you paid by PayPal then you can go into your account and look at the transaction details for contact information or just call PayPal and ask them for details about your transaction and how to contact the merchant.  You can also file a claim if the seller doesn't respond since you didn't get the complete item.  As a merchant, if your seller accepts PayPal, they would have to have an account and be verified in order to get payments, etc.  This is very elementary knowledge and you really have been able to follow such basic steps in order to resolve this yourself without posting here.

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