PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

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489 REPLIES 489

stillpendingguy
Contributor
Contributor

agreed agreed agreed.

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blue-c
Contributor
Contributor

402 516 9320

 

phone to paypal

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pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

Hey everybody just wanted to tell all that (blue-c) is right just call them they seem to me to really want to get your affairs in order and i want to say im sorry for any one i might of offended, really guys im truly sorry  you to paypal you guys let me drag you threw the mud in this forum and still didnt kick me off this sight ,even if you dont monitor it ,thats pretty onesided of any company to just let anyone drill them and take the shots for all to see ,i can respect that ,although i still dont like this( 21 day pending ) if all you have to do is call them and explain the situation then your checked by the operator and they ok you cause the buyer cant make a simple feedback and they can see the tracking is confirmed ,I did and they did this for me so this is why i have to man up and tell all ,I was really harsh to several people in here and im sorry .and this is the last time youll hear from me in this forum.

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67stanger
Contributor
Contributor

This topic should be addressed by the folks at paypal rather than providing paying members a vague set of self-defined guidelines as to why payments received are placed in a pending status. Paypal is choosing to keep money being paid to members for items sold and not even releasing money to cover the cost of shipping the item itself so in essence it is costing me money out of pocket to use this service. They keep my money and profit from the interest they receive and don't return that to their own paying members. It's an outrage and they have really become just an escrow account in my opinion.

 

I do notice that they are able to immediately subtract their fees out of any payments I receive but force me to wait for sometimes up to a month before giving me access to my own money. What's the point of having perfect ebay feedback or an unblemished record with paypal itself in light of their new policies of receiving payments.

 

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves because you are not providing the service that I originally signed up for.

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67stanger
Contributor
Contributor

Any lawyers listening. Since paypal obviously isn't maybe a class action lawsuit would get their attention. I know I'd be part of it as this is just another example of a big business using it's own self serving policies to squeeze more money from it's members.

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pebbles
Contributor
Contributor

 

PayPal immediately released 2 pending funds (  small dollar amounts ) immediately after the buyers posted positive feedbacks.Both shipments mailed out without delivery confirmation.

 

 

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marvim
Member
Member
THIS IS VERY FRUSTRATING,,I SOLD MY IPHONE 2 WEEKS AGO CUZ I GOT A NEW BLACKBERRY.. LOST THE BLACKBERRY A FEW DAYS AFTER I SOLD MY IPHONE ,NOW IM WITHOUT CELL PHONE & MONEY ..
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carsonsbooks
Member
Member

I recently ran into this same problem with paypal/ebay (same company) and called them, fuming because like the rest of you, they held my money hostage. They all claimed this was to "protect the buyer" and that they had not had any complaints from sellers so far. I came today to check to see if my payment had been released yet...it has not...and found this thread. 37 pages! So not only are they holding our money, which is not rightfully theirs to hold, they are lying to us as well, when we call to complain or question their policies. This policy is criminal in my opinion. There is no grounds for holding the money. PayPal is supposed to be a tool to facilitate safe credit card transactions. This has turned into something far far more evil and this is one of the reasons why I will be leaving ebay ASAP. They are not protecting the buyer, they are absolutely not protecting the seller..they double dip their fees when they nickel and dime us to death on the listings, and then taking a commission on top of that, THEN taking paypal fees and commissions! PayPal is an ebay company. They are only holding the money to protect themselves in the event that they have to insure an item--notice this "hold policy" is only for ebay sales, the only ones they insure. They act as if this policy is put in place to police the sellers....but no one is policing the police and the Ebay/PayPal police are absolutely corrupt.

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blue-c
Contributor
Contributor

is there a fee for joining in on the suit?

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mdalton2004
Member
Member

I have been a paypal customer for over 10 years and now they hold my payment. I for one will no longer accept paypal for payment. If I have to wait for my money I would rather wait for a certified check. I will look at adding any non paypal payment in the future. I have %100 feedback and never a complaint. this tactic is bull crap.

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