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socrcoach17
socrcoach17 New Community Member
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PayPal pending payment

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

colomtns7
colomtns7 New Community Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

Paypal this guy is right on!  Everything he said was true.  Why should anyone have to wait for what is righfully theirs.  If you have a  100% positive feedback score of any number, you have no right to play mediator with anyone's money,period. I thought that was what YOUR insurance was for? HA? Please learn from this guy and don't let it go in one ear and out the other.......  Colomtns7

JustJamie
JustJamie Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

I completely agree. I have been an ebay member with 100% feedback as well as paypal for many years. There has never been an issue before. Holding my funds for 20 days is beyond redicoulas! I am not an avid seller and when I do so it's because I need the money! Hello! I have over 700.00 pending and I need those funds now, not 3 weeks from now. As far as waiting for a positive feedback, thats not true. I recieved on the last item I sold and it was positive and yet you waited till the maximum allowed time to release funds. Are you recieving some sort of interest for withholding my funds? The buyer has already recieved their item and is happy. what about me? You used to be great, now forgive me for saying, but you **bleep**!

 


 

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Re: PayPal pending payment

well lets do something about this, get as many ebayers to sue or just get as many ebayers to write letters to ebay and paypal and let them know this is wrong. I have many storys like when I could not pay my light bill or when I saw a great deal at a flea mall that I could have made a lot of mony off of on ebay but could not because money being held. ebay/paypal is wrong and dirty for doind this to people with 100% POSITIVE feedback. some have to make a living selling on ebay. anyone have any suggestions please let me know.  "SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE"

 

LISA

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dave393
dave393 Contributor
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Re: PayPal pending payment

There IS something else to do. There's a class action suit underway against PayPal. Here's the URL. You can call the firm's phone number  to be a party to the suit:

 

http://www.letssuepaypal.com/Paypal_Complaint.pdf

 

 

Dave

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urban-street
urban-street Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

What if, every seller would have to be on board as it's for the benefit of all, the item will no longer be promised to be shipped within two days. As soon as the 3 week waiting periiod for funds that were clearly sent to me are being intercepted for unclear reasons. Well the most obvious one is the interest along is keeping their poskets very deep and they are not spending a dime doing this and the share holders are digging it. Well dig this, once the unauthorised loan is returned back into our accts THEN, AND ONLY THEN, will the item purchased be end to the buyer. It would have to be done in total solidaity for it to be effective.

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Gandara0
Gandara0 New Community Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

My first ignorant guess is that paypal is holding money for financial reasons.  They seem to be becoming more like a bank who holds your money in order to keep more deposits or what not.  Paypal used to be so great, but now I think I am going to resort to a different method, waiting for a money order to arrive and to clear and for me to then ship the package seems to be MUCH faster.

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mikes1947
mikes1947 New Community Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

paypal -why does it take so long to post a bank transfer? It is an instant transfer and yet like everyone else paypal holds up your transactions with the're crap about  processing. Let's put the world on hold while they'rer processing. At their mafia style interest rates you'd think they would be more consumer minded. Plus like the banks you hear about every day vthey won't  meet you halfway with any problems. For all their ways to help you it's a front to their iron fisted  polices of corporate greed.

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colomtns7
colomtns7 New Community Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

Paypal this guy is right on! Everything he said was true. Why should anyone have to wait for what is righfully theirs. If you have a 100% positive feedback score of any number, you have no right to play mediator with anyone's money,period. I thought that was what YOUR insurance was for? HA? Please learn from this guy and don't let it go in one ear and out the other....... Colomtns7

Ejsimaging
Ejsimaging Member
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Re: PayPal pending payment

I agree with you totally ! Paypal has **bleep**ed me before on a payment, even after I changed to a premier account.

Some guy purchased a camera from me for over $600.00 and after I shipped the item with a shipping signature confirmation and transferred the money to my bank account, paypal sent me an email telling me that my account is on hold because the buyer paid using fraudulent funds. I contacted paypal and they said that the buyer must not have been confirmed so I was not covered. When I told them that the buyer was confirmed they said " then you needed to have the package sent with a signature confirmation option ; which I did also do.

Paypal also told me that when the buyer sent payment that I should of declined it before getting the premier account upgrade. That is total crap! Because before accepting the payment, paypal flashed a popup type thing telling me to upgrade my account to premier before accepting the money. ( WHICH I DID !)

They kept **bleep**ing me around back and fourth and eventually after a lot of threatening to call the police on the buyer, the buyer finally sent me a check so I could pay off paypal so I could use my account again. The thing is that, paypal never tried to help me in any way. I guess if you want to sell on ebay and accept quick payment, we are stuck with stupid paypal !

Even though we can't even get our money due to their stupid new policies ! Paypal is all about **bleep**ing the sellers !