PayPal pending payment
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I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.
FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.
There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.
QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?
PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.
QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?
The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this
The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.
In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.
QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?
Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.
As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.
QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?
Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.
QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?
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I completely agree with the above posts. This policy is OUTRAGEOUS. Paypal gets interest on my money for 21 DAYS! Not only that, because I could not access the funds, my packaging of the item sold was potentially compromised because I could not buy the needed supplies.
I hope someone starts a class action lawsuit against this policy!
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I simply cannot afford to pay the $80.00 out of my own pocket to ship this particular item, I am here to try and make some extra money- While $80.00 might not seem like much to some- It is far more than I can aford to shell out. Furthermore, This policy is incredibly one sided! There is nothing saying that the buyer of any product on the other end is honest- You don't know who you are selling too! So what if they are dishonest and say there was a problem when there wasn't? You guessed it- You Lose! Now you no longer have posession of the item OR the money it sold for- Just more RED TAPE, and hoops to jump through to just try and come out even! Unbelievable! So much for SELLER PROTECTION! This policy is a bigger issue waiting to happen - Once people get ahold of this that are scammers and dishonest people it will be very simple for them to take full advantage of any seller using Paypal at any time they feel like it.
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I just wanted to say I agree with you 100%. I actually dont sale much on ebay but I had a 100% good feedback until they started this hold. I didnt have the money to pay the shipping and the buyer refused the way I shipped the item. I had to ship it parcel and it was still $28. I think this is rediculious not to mention they refuse to lift the feedback the person called me names and they said I would have to press charges from my local law enforcement to get it off. What gives I wont be selling anything from ebay again and wont be using paypal anymore either unless they stop this hold crap!
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A Class Action law suit has been started - read it here:
http://www.letssuepaypal.com/Paypal_Complaint.pdf
Call and register yourself if they have held your money - this is the only way to get their attention, All the rants here mean nothing to eBay/PayPal.
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Here is my question. Why can't Ebay and Paypal be more like Half.com which I believe is a sister site to Ebay. I sell items on half.com and before I have to send the items the person has to pay and it comes up in my pending payments account. I get paid usually within 5 days of the1st of the month as well as the 15th of the month. Although I do have to ship the items out of my own pocket, I do get reimbursed when I get paid on those dates. I can look at anytime to see what the total is I will be paid. Now this only works for Movies, Books, Games, and Music, but I think it is a better site. Now I know some of you will say that it is the same thing as Paypal is doing but consider this if I sell 400 items on the last day of the month or the 14th of the month, I still receive payment either on the 6th or the 20th. Hope this helps and yes I do think that both Ebay and Paypal have ALOT of kinks to work out.
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PayPal is collextion millions of extra dollars on interest on money that belongs to the sellers. Technically, they are taking (RAKING and UNAUTHORISED short term loan, making bank on the interest, then paying us back without any interest. What bank in any country give anyone a short term deal like that, better yet, what bank would let PayPal just take the theior money for three weeks, keep the interest then return what they took without any suspicion of breaking the law. Say that you were caught RETURNING computer equipment from you office that say has 500 workstations with each one supplied with a laptip. Let's also say that you were offered a short term outsourcing contract for 3 weeks, supply 5oo consultants & laptops at $50/hr per head. In short, you would have been given a check for $300000k using unauthorized wquipment that you not only didn't pay for it but technically you stole it, You then give it back with any kind of referral, equipment cost, consultant fees... nothing.Yet all financial institutions continue to get away with this severely outdated practice. Frankly, in my opinion I think it is stealing. It's my money and I did not sign off on any kind of short term loan. Now watch when the mo9ney is going the other way, from us to them... the funds are available immediately, It;s very transparent as to what they are doing.
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As background..I have been a registered ebayer since 1999, NO Negatives, NO disputes, 100% rating , and glowing comments from ebayers on the other side of my transctions ...70 transactions.
This policy of EBAY/PAYPAL of HOLDING funds WILL be exposed. IF you have a compoletely clean record, this policy simply should NOT apply. The ONLY beneficiary seems to be EBAY/PAYPAL, and to me it seems to place the SELLER at unnecessary risk.
What is to prevent the Buyer from maiing wild claims about what they received, or making claims they didn't receive the quantity that was ordered, etc.. The SELLER is out the Money, out the product, and has incurred shipping fees.
There is something patently wrong with what Ebay/Paypal is doing with this policy, and it is likely illegal. It may have been well intended, and it also may NOT have been well intended. It may have been intended to unjustly enrich Ebay/Pal. (As a point of reference ..Ebay now owns Paypal)
I suggest that ALL join the Class Action suit against ebay/paypal regarding this practice.
Attorneys will add you to the Class Action Suit - 312-220-0000, 415-759-4111
I suggest that Ebayers STOP using Paypal.
I suggest if anyone knows anyone at CBS or 60 minutes to suggest this topic be an investigative TV story.
File complaints against ebay/paypal with your local better business bureau, Attorney General, State Consumer Advocate, and anyone else whose responsibility it is to shed light on unfair/illegal business practices.
In the end this will get sorted out...but it certainly harms the reputaion of ebay and paypal..amnd the thousands of people who use both.
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THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME ON TWO ITEMS AND I WILL NEVER USE PAYPAL AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've spent money to ship out within two days and I can't even get my money back for 21???? SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE! Once again, the person who does the right thing becomes the villain! ARE THEY KIDDING ME??? THEY JUST LOST MY BUSINESS! IT IS JUST A WAY FOR THEM TO EARN INTEREST OFF OF MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am soooooo ticked! AND NOTHING WAS MENTIONED BEFORE I CHOSE PAYPAL FOR PMT. ONE WAS FOR LOCAL PICKUP. WELL GUESS WHAT? I WILL NOT RELEASE THE PURCHASE UNTIL I HAVE THE MONEY IN MY HAND! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
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It's like PayPal help buyers help the company with our sellers' money ( cash in our own accounts ).Something is obviously WRONG with this picture.
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Ok so this has finally happened to me as well. One thing I did notice is that PayPal "releases" the amount of money the buyer paid for shipping to "cover" your shipping expense. The item I sent out was delivered almost a week ago and I still have yet to receive feedback or the funds for the purchase. So, me being me I called PayPal to b**ch them out about it and I got a very generic response of "I am so sorry the system malfunctioned and didn't release your funds upon confirmation of delivery. I do see that you used PayPal shipping and the item was received, so I will go ahead and manually release the funds to you". I think this is just a bunch of BS. The system malfunctioned.........PLEASE! It's called you hold on to our money so you can collect the extra interest on it for a few days.

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