PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

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489 REPLIES 489

tp672
Contributor
Contributor

Just think how much money they (Pay Pal) is holding on any given day? I would venture to say that they have that money held in an account that draws them intrest

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whop-ty-do
Contributor
Contributor
Hatter:
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whop-ty-do
Contributor
Contributor

Hatter: My experience was the same as yours. I am currently selling (4) items. Lets see how that goes. 

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twoadays
Contributor
Contributor

iHere you this is BS IMM stopping too

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jholmes
Member
Member

Am I supposed to believe that the money that is being held by PayPal in "pending payments" is really just an idle escrow? You are saying this money is being held so as to quickly pay out for buyer protection disuptes? Please.

 

PayPal is using the "pending payments" balance to earn interest. The more money they have in flux the more interest they can potentially earn. They only response is that you can get it quicker by getting positive feeddback and the tracking number. I've done the latter but (as a previous poster has said) cannot beg for the former. So now paypal gets 310.00 to play with for 21 days and has to pay me back at 0.0% interest. What a great idea.

 

In closing, this is outrageous. PayPal has no problem holding my 300.00 (after they get 10 bucks off the top) while ebay charges me 20.00 in fees for a closing price of 310.00. PayPal/eBay get 30 dollars on a 310.00 dollar transaction, then PayPal gets to hold that 310.00 for 21 days earning interest.

 

Good bye PalPal. You've lost a customer and I'll take my money  to an alternative (see previous posts for good ones).

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hukeokc
Contributor
Contributor

Just had to add my 2 cents that will probably be ignored by anyone who runs this site.  I am shocked that some clown at ebay/paypal decided this was a good way to keep sellers using paypal.  I just sold a camera on 3/2/10 and shipped it UPS Ground as I said I would.  Put a tracking number on ebay for them, and contacted the buyer twice to inform them of when I would be shipping the item and to please leave feedback.  It got there on the 8th at about 2 pm and here I am on the 10th at 1 am with no feedback from the buyer.  It was a brand new camera in the box and I wrapped it like it was a piece of fine china. So now I get to be empty handed with no camera or money to show for it because the buyer is too lazy to leave feedback.  Craigslist works just fine here in OKC and its free so thanks ebay for ruining yet another good thing in the world.  Awesome!!

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travelgirl56
Contributor
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I agree PayPal is a joke/hi-jacker (of funds)! I sold an item for 1st time on ebay to only find out that MY MONEY is being "held" (HOSTAGE, THAT IS) UNTIL PayPal feels it's "OK" to release the money!!!! HOWEVER, they weren't AFRAID to skim "their portion" right off the top WITHOUT WAITING!!! (Maybe there should be a stipulation that PayPal doesn't get it's "fees" (which it DOES NOT DESERVE) UNTIL WE AS SELLERS, GET OUR MONEY!! Here I'm trying to make ends meet, and what does the "big guy" do to the "little guy" (me)??? HOLDS MY MONEY!!!! I thought selling something on ebay would help my family and I get through these hard financial times, but NO........CAN'T have that!!!! The "lil guys" (sellers) have to get taken advantage of!!!! While PayPal, happily sits back, collecting "fees". I WANT MY MONEY!!!!!

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Hatter
Contributor
Contributor

Travelgirl, that is perfect!

 

Who do we have to talk to to implement that.

 

I totally agree, Paypall should NOT recieve ANY insertion fee, listing fee, or final fees untill the payment pending (money being held) issue is resolved for that transaction.

 

Can we start a petition of some kind and mail it someone who gives a crap?

Not sure where to start that.

 

-H

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Gursel
Member
Member

I will definitely not be using paypal after i finally get my money. This is ridiclous and greedy on PayPal's part to make their greedy strategy seem like a service that they are providing it's customer piece of security.

 

My money has been in pending status since last week and i cannot have it. Think about thousands of people not being able to access their money and PayPal earns interest on millions of dollars.

 

As a Seller, much like a retail store you would expect your money at the time of sale. Not when the customer takes home the goods and inspects it and feels like giving you the ok to use the money.

 

Outragous fees by Ebay and Paypal have pushed me away from using them but after almost year of not using either company, i come back to more ridiclous policies and fees. Thank you but i rather take a chance with money orders than some company earning interest on my money.

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travelgirl56
Contributor
Contributor

Ok, so I decided, that since PayPal (which ISN'T ANY "pal" of mine), wants to hold My MONEY Hostage....I will spend a few minutes each day (until they fork over my money), doing this: Hello,
I am contacting your company AGAIN, & will continue to do so, until I ACTUALLY HAVE ACCESS TO MY MONEY!!!!!!!! I sold item #         on ebay, PAID for the shipping fees UP-FRONT, sent tracking information to buyer, ebay, AND your company..(tracking information AGAIN:    ); YET STILL NO MONEY FOR ME!!!!! How is it that your company states, it's providing a service??? What service would that be?? Holding MY MONEY HOSTAGE IS NOT A SERVICE TO ME...BUT TO YOUR COMPANY INSTEAD!!! You took "YOUR SHARE" RIGHT OFF THE TOP, BUT FAILED TO GIVE ME MINE...PLEASE TELL ME HOW IS THIS "HELPING/SERVICING" ME?? THANKS, but I DON'T WANT/NEED THAT SORT OF HELP!!!!! FORK UP MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!! I will NEVER use your "service/company" AGAIN; but instead will be glad to give your company TONS OF FREE ADVERTISEMENT (OF THE NEGATIVE SORT OF COURSE) ON EVERY OPPORTUNITY, SOCIAL WEBSITE, FRIENDS, ETC.!!!!! So do your company a favor, and GIVE ME MY MONEY!!!
Thanks,
travelgirl56

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