Pam Geller / Atlas Shrugs

[paul7903]

Inform us when PayPal has been reinstated for Pam Geller / Atlas Shrugs so that I also can continue to use PayPal.  I cannot use a service that restricts my access to only Islam / Moslem friendly sites.

[DJM]

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@DrBukk wrote:

I suggest the females who work for Paypal go and visit any Islamic country and visit the abused women facilities. We must know our enemies, and Atlas Shrugged does a good job at that. Women are the central issue between Islam and the West. Shutting down Ms. Geller's account is what a Muslim bank would do, not an American bank. "Hate speech" is a liberal attempt to prevent any speech they disagree with. Then comes the "racist" accusation.

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They have 'abused women facilities' in islamic countries? I thought they were called "family homes".

Islam does not recognize abused women. First, women are property of their husbands (or fathers), they are not individuals nor do they have the same rights as male counterparts. And second, the quran encourages men to beat their wives for disobedience or if they "fear" desertion. (That's verse 4:34 for those who wish to look it up.)How could islamic authorities prosecute a behavior that muhammad himself approved?

Not only that, the penalty for "honor killing" in islamic countries - that is, a male relative murdering a female family member - is notoriously lenient, sometimes without punishment. If charged for the killing, the offender may serve as little as a few months or pay a simple monetary fine (maybe through Paypal!)

So, while I agree with your point, I don't think it would be at all feasible. 😉

[surplusdealdude]

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@DJM wrote:

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@DrBukk wrote:

I suggest the females who work for Paypal go and visit any Islamic country and visit the abused women facilities. We must know our enemies, and Atlas Shrugged does a good job at that. Women are the central issue between Islam and the West. Shutting down Ms. Geller's account is what a Muslim bank would do, not an American bank. "Hate speech" is a liberal attempt to prevent any speech they disagree with. Then comes the "racist" accusation.

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They have 'abused women facilities' in islamic countries? I thought they were called "family homes".

Islam does not recognize abused women. First, women are property of their husbands (or fathers), they are not individuals nor do they have the same rights as male counterparts. And second, the quran encourages men to beat their wives for disobedience or if they "fear" desertion. (That's verse 4:34 for those who wish to look it up.)How could islamic authorities prosecute a behavior that muhammad himself approved?

Not only that, the penalty for "honor killing" in islamic countries - that is, a male relative murdering a female family member - is notoriously lenient, sometimes without punishment. If charged for the killing, the offender may serve as little as a few months or pay a simple monetary fine (maybe through Paypal!)

So, while I agree with your point, I don't think it would be at all feasible. 😉

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Islam does not recognize abused women

Mohammed wrote some interesting things about women ( remember this is the 6th century);

http://submission.org/women/beating.html

Also remember the "rule of thumb" - established in 1782, 1100 years AFTER Mohammed;

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/rule-of-thumb.html

Mohammed was 1100 years ahead of the West.

Not only that, the penalty for "honor killing" in islamic countries

"Honour killing" is banned in all countries and it still takes place in some rural backwards areas of some Muslim countries, some Hindi societies and it white America.

In America, you call it a "crime of passion", which is still an available defence in Texas.  40 years ago, it was used to excuse a man from murdering his spouse.  That is also a form of honour killing;

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/crime+of+passion

[DJM]

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@surplusdealdude wrote:

Islam does not recognize abused women

Mohammed wrote some interesting things about women ( remember this is the 6th century);

http://submission.org/women/beating.html

Also remember the "rule of thumb" - established in 1782, 1100 years AFTER Mohammed;

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/rule-of-thumb.html

Mohammed was 1100 years ahead of the West.

Not only that, the penalty for "honor killing" in islamic countries

"Honour killing" is banned in all countries and it still takes place in some rural backwards areas of some Muslim countries, some Hindi societies and it white America.

In America, you call it a "crime of passion", which is still an available defence in Texas.  40 years ago, it was used to excuse a man from murdering his spouse.  That is also a form of honour killing;

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/crime+of+passion

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Wife beating is not only ordained in the quran, it is supported in the hadith.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm

Here is a Hadith from Bukhari, vol. 7, # 715, that details Islamic wife beating:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's messenger came, Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's messenger! She has told a lie. I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa." Allah's messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes." The prophet said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.""

Notice muhammad did not condemn her husband for beating her. Muhammad instead rebuked her for complaining and ordered her to return to him.

Muhammad even beat his own wife, Muslim, book 4, #2127: "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Now, the above are examples of muhammad's own conduct when it came to wife beating. He turned a blind eye to the abuse of others and beat his own wife. The quran says muhammad is the perfect example of conduct for men to follow. (verse 33:21)

Following that perfect example, men in muslim countries beat their wives at a much higher rate than in any civilized society. In some islamic societies, as many as 90% of married women report being physically abused. Islamic authorities also turn a blind eye to the abuse of women.

Also remember, the so-called "Rule of Thumb" phrase orgin no longer applies. In fact, what you have failed to notice, wife beating is ILLEGAL under modern English law, yet is STILL legal under islamic law.

"Honor killings" and crimes of passion are not the same as you assert.

Crimes of passion are committed in the heat of passion - suddened rage, usually between lovers (or spouses).

"Honor killings" are deliberate, premeditated, usually involving several family members for such offenses such as dating someone of a different religion or being too 'westernized'. It is not only between husband and wife, but between brothers and sisters, fathers and daughters, sons and mothers, and sometimes with even distant relatives and neighbors becoming involved.

Once again you expose your utter ignorance on the matters being discussed.

[surplusdealdude]

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating

Results 1 - 10 of about 109,000 for wife beating in the bible

.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=wife+beating+in+the+bible&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B2GGGL_en___...

And your point?

"Honor killings" and crimes of passion are not the same as you assert.

The woman is still dead.

Results 1 - 10 of about 10,800,000 for man kills wife

 Results 1 - 10 of about 3,090,000 for Muslim kills wife

I'm not defending either of these - I'm just saying that white men kill theior wives for similar reasons, and apparently in greater numbers - I NEVER hear one of you guys mention it.

If ALL you see is the crimes another race is doing, you're just looking for reasons to justify your bigotry.

This is the 21st century, for crying out loud - show some intelligence, show some fairness.

[Beaglebabe48]

Muslims are not a "race," sir.  They are adherents to a religion ... Islam.  Race has nothing to do with this discussion.  Quit with the spin will 'ya.

[DJM]

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@surplusdealdude wrote:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating

Results 1 - 10 of about 109,000 for wife beating in the bible

.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=wife+beating+in+the+bible&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B2GGGL_en___...

And your point?

"Honor killings" and crimes of passion are not the same as you assert.

The woman is still dead.

Results 1 - 10 of about 10,800,000 for man kills wife

 Results 1 - 10 of about 3,090,000 for Muslim kills wife

I'm not defending either of these - I'm just saying that white men kill theior wives for similar reasons, and apparently in greater numbers - I NEVER hear one of you guys mention it.

If ALL you see is the crimes another race is doing, you're just looking for reasons to justify your bigotry.

This is the 21st century, for crying out loud - show some intelligence, show some fairness.

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Non-muslim = 80% of humanity

muslim = 20%

Do you know anything about ratios?

You, like many islamic apologists, use historical examples to excuse modern-day abuses. Instead of admitting the reality of modern day islamic law, you point to other non-islamic practices hundreds and even thousands of years old as some sort of an excuse for current practices.

While you're doing all this googling, try googling "legal" and "illegal". Plus, you need to understand that practices the west considers a crime, is rarely reported in societies that do NOT consider it a crime. So, trying to equate the number of punishable crimes in Western societies with equivalent, yet LEGAL abuses in third world societies is absurd. The fact your googling (upon which you apparently rely heavily) has produced a close 3 to 1 ratio by a subculture that only represents 1/5th of the world's population proves the statistics are much higher porportionally to the population. So, thanks for proving my point! 🙂

BTW, islam is NOT a race, it is an ideology. All ideologies are not equal. For the 21st century, with all our communication & internet technologies, you seem to be extremely ignorant and out of touch with reality - show some common sense.

[surplusdealdude]

Non-muslim = 80% of humanity

muslim = 20%

Do you know anything about ratios?

Christian - 33% of humanity

Muslim - 20% of humanity.

Those aren't Buddhists beating their wives, bud - they're Christian.  And they do it at a rate two times higher than Muslims on a per capita basis.  They used to do it more, but the liberals forced them to cut back.

And, while we're on the subject of numbers, have you ever considered that, if as the right-wing says, all Muslims are in the process of turning into suicide bombers, that we would have a heck of a lot more dead Christians lying around?  On the order of hundreds of millions, instead of the handful from 9/11?

There are 1-7 million Muslims in the US.  It took 20 to bring down the Twin Towers.  It took 2 people to bomb the building in Omaha ( yes, I know McVeigh was not a Muslim).

If your leaders are right, there should be widespread devastation across the US and it isn't there.

You, like many islamic apologists, use historical examples to excuse modern-day abuses.

YOU'RE the one trying to use a 1,400 year old document to accuse the Muslim faith - I have merely pointed out that mire of the same is found in your Bible.

And I am not excusing the abuses - they're wrong whether a Muslim does it or a Christian.

But religion has nothing to do with it - abuse is a power issue, separate from race or religion.  It is the fault of the insecurities of the person.

While you're doing all this googling, try googling "legal" and "illegal".

Are you saying that there's a legal reason to beat or kill your wife?

Plus, you need to understand that practices the west considers a crime, is rarely reported in societies that do NOT consider it a crime.

There is no society on Earth that does not consider killing a crime.  Absolutely none.  And you are assuming that there is more abuse than has been proven to exist - this is a rare occurence, blown all out of proportion by right-wing fanatics desperate to find anything to smear Islam with.

Come up with the proof or acknowledge defeat of the point.

The fact your googling (upon which you apparently rely heavily)

Yes, I like to base MY arguments on facts.  So far, I see none from you.

You should try Googling more often.  When you start to refute "fact" after "fact" that you've been told, you may see how heavily you've been propagandized by the fanatics of the religious right.

But I doubt you can be that impartial.

BTW, islam is NOT a race, it is an ideology. All ideologies are not equal.

Islam is a religion, not an ideology.  Democracy is an ideology.

Ranking ideologies is impossible - there is no ideology that is "better" or "worse" than any other ideology.

Christianity works for the Christians.  Islam works for the Muslims.  Judaism works for the Jews.  And so on, down the line.

This "My God is better than your God" business is the height of idocy, especially when applied to the monotheistic religions.

The god of Christians, Muslims and Jews is the same God.  You're just seeing different aspects of his unfathomable being because those aspects are what you most need in your life.

The other religions are equally valid - get over it.

[kelskamp]

SurplusDeadDude

MODERN TIMES... they (muslims) won't abide by the laws of the lands in inhabit but want to bring in their own laws..

Shirira law discriminates against women... if a woman is raped it must be witnessed by 4 other men to be a crime..... for not too many women are "raped" under their laws...

Oh and all a women has to do to be in trouble is be ACCUSED of something by a man and she is guilty...

YOU get your facts straight...

AND if this is the kind of person paypal wants to comment on their boards for them (nothing about paypal here but your opinions which shouldn't be posted if you are posting for paypal) make me want to continue to do business with them... I too will investigate other means of payments from customers rather than continue to support a company who allows people like youi to post for them.... I used to work for a software company.. when I posted for them it was the facts and the problems, not getting off on my own politiical little rant under my posted signin.. (if I wanted to sign in as someone else I could do that all I want)

That said... you have done more to sully the name of Paypal than anything they have done so far themselves... good job if that was your intent as you have done that well.

[gramgram]

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kelskamp wrote:

SurplusDeadDude

MODERN TIMES... they (muslims) won't abide by the laws of the lands in inhabit but want to bring in their own laws..

Shirira law discriminates against women... if a woman is raped it must be witnessed by 4 other men to be a crime..... for not too many women are "raped" under their laws...

Oh and all a women has to do to be in trouble is be ACCUSED of something by a man and she is guilty...

YOU get your facts straight...

AND if this is the kind of person paypal wants to comment on their boards for them (nothing about paypal here but your opinions which shouldn't be posted if you are posting for paypal) make me want to continue to do business with them... I too will investigate other means of payments from customers rather than continue to support a company who allows people like youi to post for them.... I used to work for a software company.. when I posted for them it was the facts and the problems, not getting off on my own politiical little rant under my posted signin.. (if I wanted to sign in as someone else I could do that all I want)

That said... you have done more to sully the name of Paypal than anything they have done so far themselves... good job if that was your intent as you have done that well.

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I agree 100%!  I just placed a large order with smartbargains.com.  I normally check out with PayPal.  However, after reading all the  hateful drivel spouted by Canadian based surplusdealdude (with no comment from PayPal), I find it hard to believe their ideology is too far from his. Anyone who believes devout Muslims just want to live and let live is living in LaLa land.  Even the "moderate" Muslim Imans who lead prayers in the U.S. are caught preaching violence and takeover of America when they travel back to the Middle East.  Look at what is happening in England today.  The liberals were so proud of their "Muslim welcoming policy."  Now, thousands take to the streets to violently protest returning British soldiers.  Liberals are fiddling while Rome is burning.

And, surplusdealdude, please don't reply back with harsh comments on my sentence structure or spelling.  I'm an old woman, but I am still sharp enough to spot a far out zealot.

[advocate6]

Domestic violence is my area of expertise.  So, please allow me to address the issues previously introduced.  The history of mankind has since the beginning of time been struggling with the issues of violence against women and children, including physical, emotional and sexual abuse.  I have made it my life’s mission to confront and fight against these abuses as they present themselves in our community today. 

The previous posting try and say one way or another that because these crimes are historical and span across all demographics that pointing out the threat of Islam and Sharia law is somehow at least unfair or at most conspirator in nature.

I would like to make a comparison regarding other crimes that are also historical and cut across demographic lines.  Theft, murder, robbery and many other types of “person crimes.”  The argument that we should shut up about these crimes if they are part of a criminal enterprise such as an “organized syndicate” or “Mafia” would be ridicules.

We as a reasonable society see intuitively that when a crime is committed by an individual because of errors of thinking or a sense of entitlement that these individuals need to be accountable to the law. That justice must be served.  We spend huge amounts of money, time, and employ an army of professionals to do just that.

When these crimes are codified into a belief system and the offenders are protected by well funded, organized, politically connected enterprises then we are taking about a serious threat to the society and the individual victims.  We can not ignore it because similar crimes are committed by individuals.

It’s one thing to have an individual exert power and control over an individual victim or victims, but it is a whole other animal when the offender is encouraged, protected and validated by an ideology that wields some power and authority. I see this threat in ways that the previous posters do not.  These victims have been in my office.  They are hunted not just by their offender (as most of my victims are) but also by their families, the community, the ideology that will place a murder mandate through a “Fatwa” on their heads.  I will not shut up!