**bleep**ed by Buyer, then by Paypal. Had enough.

[ciscoguy]

I had a seller with strong feedback buy a cell phone that I rebuilt and worked yet still had some problems, which I described at great length in the auction.  Right after he received it, he opened a complaint with paypal saying it was damaged in transit but he also complained about certain things which weren't really problems but indicated this guy had completely disassembled the phone (eg, a piece of tape on the rear of the LCD display - that's supposed to be a problem I should have mentioned in the auction?)

I told him that if he hadn't opened up the phone and it was damaged in transit, I would give him a refund no questions asked, but since he disassembled the phone, I have no idea what was broken in transit or what could have been inflicted by him in his efforts to work on it.  He then started lying saying he didn't open it up, and I escalated the case figuring it was a slam dunk in my favor.  About a day later I get a notice from Paypal saying they decided in his favor!!  Evidently, not only am I responsible for any damage in transit, but I'm also expected to warranty his handiwork.  Unbelievable.

So, I now have a negative $215 balance in my account, and the buyer has uploaded the tracking number for returning the damaged phone to me.  Do I have any shot of an appeal upon receipt?  If paypal is going to expect sellers to accept refunds that wouldn't be acceptable at Walmart, I am through with them as a business partner and fine with leaving my negative balance indefinitely, as I plan to never use them again.  Will they try to automatically charge my bank account or credit card to zero out the balance?  If so, I'm prepared to have them fight them on that.  If paypal can't be a neutral arbiter in dispute resolution, I'll let them deal with my banks.

[PayPal_Olivia]

Hi ciscoguy,

First of all, welcome to the forums. I'm sorry your first trip here was because of a bad experience.

You absolutely should call in to appeal when you receive the item back, if the buyer has altered the item. Make sure you mention that the report made by the buyer was based on disassembly of the phone.

I hope this helps!

Olivia

[ciscoguy]

So, this jerk returned the phone to me - there are new scrapes all over the metal frame that would have been impossible to sustain in the box in which it was sent.  Who knows what this guy did to it.  Furthermore, he returned the phone without the battery.  This is unbelievable - buyers can literally do whatever they want and sellers are totally helpless.  Paypal just doesn't give a **bleep**.

[SpawnedGSX]

Exactly Ciscoguy. Paypal is a sham. Olivia over here wants you to believe that you have recourse, but you don't. They will tell you to go file a police report about what you got back and the police will look at you like you have 27 heads and tell you they do not intervene in civil matters. Get prepared for court. By the way, I have called my bank and had them block PayPal from collecting on these funds, and then PayPal did anyway so I filed a claim with my bank, they already gave me the money back and now I just have to sign a form.

**bleep** these clowns.

[ciscoguy]

Good for you.  I was worried about them damaging my credit, so I refilled my account.

Ebay owns Paypal, which explains why they can give a d@mn about the sellers.  It's not damaged merchandise out of their inventory, so they'll ALWAYS side with the buyers.  I am confident that this guy could have returned an empty box, and they still would be happy to refund his money.  They are not honest brokers or neutral arbiters, and if they're going to allow scammers to operate unrestrained, then I will no longer be participating in this racket.  F them and F this whole operation.

[PayPal_Olivia]

Hi ciscoguy,

Have you called to appeal the case? I can understand being daunted by the situation, but I recommend giving the appeal process a chance. It's true that appealing does not guarantee an outcome in your favor - information is collected and reviewed - but not filing an appeal at all makes loss a certainty.

I'm rooting for you!

Olivia

[ciscoguy]

Yes, it was denied within 1 day.  From the email I got:


"However, the damage noted in the appeal above was the same one as cited by
the buyer as the reason for the original complaint. That’s why we’re not
reversing our decision and the appeal has been denied."


So, I have proof that the phone was tampered with and the likely reason it is now the condition it is in, and the buyer conveniently "forgot" to include the battery when he returned it.  And, all of that amounts to the "same damage"?

[ciscoguy]

I just called in and opened another appeal.  The rep sounded sympathetic, but I thought this was and open and shut case the first 2 times.

[ciscoguy]

Appeal denied again.  What a useless company Paypal is.

[SpawnedGSX]

Yep, just bring them to court. Works every time.