The reason why PAYPAL allows known Chinese scammers to use its platform.

[Sativ27]

Money..

I have been scammed by the what I now realise is the classic Chinese scam. Here is the website: <removed>

1/ Pretend to be an American company (stronger trading laws and protections, cheaper mail return fees to the USA).

2/ Send an inferior quality item to the one promised - or in my case - a completely different item you never wanted.

3/ Sit back and let PAYPAL shield you from the few that do complain.. Most people defrauded will simply take the hit - the few that complain to PAYPAL - PAYPAL will hear out both sides and come back with, 'we can't verify the fraud.. we have to listen to both sides and be transparent and fair.. (woke woke woke..) but he has agreed to refund you if you pay most the extortionate return fees..'

Why PayPaL shields these evil people? Money.

Disgrace. 

[kernowlass · Accepted solution]

@Sativ27 

Chinese Web Sites or on Social Media ads easy to spot (once you know the below signs) so buyer beware.

Paypal would not be able to check every individual seller / merchant / company in over 200 countries worldwide that adds paypal to their website to accept payments.

So they give you 'some' buyer protection but the onus is on you to risk assess your transactions.

They do stop bad companies from using Paypal when enough claims start rolling in.
However as they are in China (mostly) then its easy for them to just start over with a new name, so stopping them does not really do anything.

The BEST thing is to not buy from them in the first place, to recognise them -

1. No return address on the returns policy. The site will look as if its in your country (where they despatch goods from) but they will ask for returns to go back to China (returns depot) at a shipping cost often more than the item is worth.
2. No contact telephone number. if you click on contact the most you will get is webmail or an email address.
3. Rarely company address information.
4. Great pictures of items at bargain prices that turn out to be tat.
5. Fake reviews.
6. Google and you can often see previous company names as they change them once enough claims roll in and Paypal stop them using their services and start over.
7. Send fake tracking numbers to win item non receipt of item claims.

[Sativ27]

1/ Return address was in the US and that is what they are doing mostly now. So no. You only find out that his name is not 'Bill' but is in fact Zi'an and the return address is in China once you ask for a return, so no. The minute Paypal can see the company is not in the US, but China - ban them for false advertising - don't wait for more people to be scammed. Show some humanity.

2/ Contact number was in US.

3/ Company gave its address - in the US. Florida to be precise so no. Sensing a theme? Your advice is outdated by 5 years..

4/ True, prices were very good, but often you find good prices - not necessarily a sign of a scam.

5/ Sometimes they have reviews, sometimes they don't - again... not a certain tell.

6/ Incorrect. Paypal took all my evidence - realised the company was a fake and then said 'we cannot verify the fraud' and 'we have to be fair to both sides' as they often say to many other victims - just re-read these forums to see the games PayPal plays. Disgusting really. 

7/ Tracking numbers in my case were all correct.

Finally you stated as fact: 'Paypal would not be able to check every individual seller / merchant / company in over 200 countries worldwide that adds paypal to their website to accept payments.' No one is asking that. What we are asking... again and again and again is that PayPal stops playing games. There are countless instances of a company being proved a fraud and Paypal tells everyone - including myself - 'we can't prove the fraud'... 'we have to be fair to both sides'.. this is repulsive and has to stop. Also I did not accept your answer as a solution but like with PayPal in general... the game continues..

[Temp20210501i]

It's not hard to let the person scammed prove the addess tied to a fake tracking number isnt the one tied to the pay pal account that Pay Pall let me scammed.

Just saying

Oh hey pay pal go **bleep** yourselves.

[kernowlass]

@Sativ27 

I just gave you ideas on how to spot the fraudsters, I did not say that they all 100% all matched the same criteria.

However most fraud companies seem to hang around Social Media sites.

Even credit cards are turning some folks away that have been scammed by the China websites and to be fair its pretty easy to see an item is coming from China and China items are mostly tat.....hence the ridiculously low prices being charged, a big red flag.

Don't worry about the solution its meaningless to be honest and I can't mark them as such anyway, only a mod or the person that starts the thread can do that. 

Its true however paypal has to give 'buyer AND seller' protection so its an impossible task to please both parties which is why you have to play the system correctly including disputes etc.

Lastly if you are unluckily enough to be scammed and lets face it we all have been at one time or another with internet buying then you can always try a chargeback if you funded your paypal payment via a credit card and 'see' if they will help you? I never fund an internet purchase without the back up of a credit card. Paypal does give you some help with return postage costs, have you enabled that on your Paypal account site?

[Sativ27]

 @kernowlass 

You gave some super ideas about how to spot fraudsters 5 years ago. Today, the copy and paste list you liberally use across these forums is not so useful and in fact - a bit of a kick in the teeth. Let me explain why. You see the complaints are not about the fraudsters - but Paypal's shielding of them. Even if the post was about how to not get tricked by fraudsters in the first place - your advice is out of date as my list explained. 

The solution the mod selected for me (?) is meaningless but symbolic. There was no solution and yet a Paypal mod decided there was. Are you even close to understanding there is a theme here? Also my trustpilot links were removed on another thread by the same mod as he claimed I am not allowed to post personal information. The Trustpilot reviews were not displaying any personal information. Spotting a theme yet?

Again you talking about items from China being tat. I will put this in bold so it gets through. The items described were high quality Japanese branded products from the US. That is what the scam is. American address, phone number, reviews on facebookfrom the US and the all important 'you can pay through paypal.' Chinese tat is chinese tat - however again, like 99% of what you post, that is sadly irrelevant.

You stated: 'Its true however paypal has to give 'buyer AND seller' protection so its an impossible task to please both parties which is why you have to play the system correctly including disputes etc.' 

Insidious of you to write that when we are talking about fraudsters - not honest businesses. Please attempt to be neutral.

Paypal is still deciding whether my fraudster is a fraudster my dear chap and that is what I want you to comment on. NOTHING ELSE.

Paypal is aware the fraudulent man and company are not american  and have never been american countrary to their advertisement and company literature. Paypal is aware the fraudulent company has now closed its website and deleted its Facebook adverts. I have furnished Paypal with screenshots before all this was deleted. Paypal is aware of the fraud and the falsely advertised product,  but Paypal after two weeks of me complaining has still not admitted these people are fraudulent. Paypal is still repeating that repulsive nonsense like you did of being 'fair to both sides' and worse? 'No evidence of fraud but we are looking into it..' This has been going on for two weeks. Paypal has done everything except be honest. Paypal told me there is no evidence of fraud - there is and they later tried to distance themselves from that statement when I stated the obvious facts.. Paypal said the best they could offer if £15 of the £28 return shipping costs because they can't prove the fraud.. when I said I have displayed evidence of the fraud - they went quiet and then nervously offered me some vouchers to make up the difference....  ANYTHING BUT ADMIT I WAS DEFRAUDED AND CLOSE DOWN ALL TIES WITH THESE FRAUDSTERS AND GIVE ME A REFUND. 

[kernowlass]

@Temp20210501i 

You can appeal a dispute for wrong tracking but you have to provide certain info, post back if you want more info.

Pointless being abusive, unlikely paypal will read your post.