What is actually seller protection?

[pricewizard0011]

Hi there,

Not new to Paypal but this thing about seller protection reallly starting to bother me. Well this is what happened:

Sold the item on eBay, seller opened case in resolution center (item not received) and ebay decide the case in my favor since the item was deliverd to the correct address but the item was refused from the buyer two times.Package arrived to buyer  in app 10 days and it was sent with the EMS - Express Mail Services from EU.

 Then the buyer opened the case on PayPal and after a couple of days PayPal decided in buyers favor and refunded him full amount plus shipping cost. I called PayPal since they advise me trough email that i have a APPEL button on the case page on my account (classic PayPal scam - THE BUTTON DOES NOT EXIST) and the polite voice explaned me that this case will be reopend and that the senior customer team will rewive my case. After an half of hour i received the email that the case is closed again and that is decided in buyers favor agin.

So my question is .... I did nothing wrong . I send the package on time and it was at buyers address on time. I paid for the shipping and i paid for the return shipping since the item returned to me. I lost 60$ that i spent on shipping. So how is this correct.

Can somebody explane me what i did wrong and why is this case resolved in this way? I would be happy if the PayPal gave me the money that i spend for shipping and the rest of the money PayPal should refund to buyer. I think that would be fair decision to both of us.

Thank you for the response in advance.

[DPCreations]

PayPal will follow published policies has sole authority to settle the disputes according to it's polcies and procedures.

You need to adjust your own business practices to work within those constraints.  You can't directly determine outcome of disputes so that's where you establish your own risk model with the assumption that you will lose a certain number of disputes you hoped to win.  There are ways to minimize those risks by negotiating customer issues before they become PayPal disputes. 

[pricewizard0011]

Could you please point me to the PayPal policie/procedure that sya that PayPal can dispose with my funds without asking for my permition.

If you could point me to the PayPal policie/procedure where it say that  the PayPal can refund (without my permission) the money to the pearson that refused to receive what he paid for and count that as my mistake.

You can past linke in this thread if you manage to find one. Thank`s

You should understand that the PayPal is just a tool or financial services that people use to transfer money to each other and it should not be involved in the process of making decission for the things it was never involved in. I naver sold anyhting over PayPal i sold it over eBay so eBay should be responsibal of making decisions in this case.

It would be the same thing if you would buy something from me using credit card ...What would you do then... Would you go to the bank saying you want your money back? Bank would probably say that they had no part  in that transaction and that they only enable you to transfer your money and if there was any irregularity or breaking the law that you should call a police.

Did i scam anybody?Did i break the law? No i did not.

I just asked what I did wrong, and you are not giving me a straight answer because you can`t. Correct?

Thnaks.

[Whac-A-Mole]

I am a veteran Ebay seller,I have been selling on EBAY since 1990s,so I have seen enough cases to make some comments here-

EBay policy is that if the buye refused the package,he loses his Ebay buyer protection,in your case,Ebay sides with you as USPS EMS have attempted 2 deliveries and he refused.

But your buyer went to PAypal and file item not received,Paypal is a payment processor and its rules are different than EBAY which is a sales venue,it sounds like your case was first handled by a robot,since it was not delivered ,then buyer gets the money back .

Then YOU appealed and a real person looked into it and decided the buyer wins,as he never get the item,now I wonder did a real person look into it or another robot?

Did you provide proof and description showing he has refused delivery twice?

But even if you do,and a real person looks into it,he cant really side with you and let you keep the money as the buyer does not have the item,you do.

Paypal always refund in full when the item is returned,so he gets his full payment back.

As to you paying extra to get the item back,this is really not Paypal to get involved,it cannot go after his paypal account and deduct the return shipping cost,it is a payment processor,not the judge.even the judge would not do so,it would just expect you to collect it yourself.

so this is th eway it is,now since you won the Ebay dispute ,you may want to call Ebay and **bleep** about this return shipping cost and see if EBAY will reimburse you.

You should also report this buyer to Ebay,do it too many times,he will lose his buying privilege.

I have 2 returns cases now,one went to AUSTRALIA and the buyer quickly refused and marked return and open a case on EBay ,Ebay expects him to return the item,but return takes a long time so money is now in limbo,I dont have it and he does not have it.

I want to get it resolved sooner,so I called Ebay and Ebay said this is a case for Ebay Australia,call Ebay AUSTRALIA,are you kidding me,who is going to call Australia?

Cant they call their own kind in Australia,they said NO.

The second case is domestic,buyer heard she can get it cheaper elsewhere ,so she claimed item not as described,I paid return shipping,now it come back,it is as decribed so I REPORT her to Ebay,will Ebay do anything,I doubt it.

so thats the way it is,if they keep doing this,they will lose their buying privilege,in the mean time we just have to swallow the loss and resell the item.

[Whac-A-Mole]

Now here is another case-someone bought a 7 lbs bronze bell from me,it has a stand and a knocker which swings,so it is heavy and tricky to pack,so I insure the shipment with U-PIC.

BUYER SAID it came damaged and show picture of the bell sideway,I have a hard time understanding or seeing where is the damage.

I filed a claim with U-PIC with her picture .

Upic underwriter cant figure where and what is the damage and ask me to ship the whoe **bleep** bell to him so he can find the damage.

It finally arrived adn THERE IS NO DAMAGE ,she did a better packing job than me.

So I not only lost money shipping both ways but also insurance premium.

But I eventually resold it and recovered my loss,and I reported her to Ebay and block her from future purchase.

Always block them.

[Whac-A-Mole]

if a buyer loses a case on EBay,he will go to Paypal,if he loses on Paypal,he will go to his cc issuer ,then if seller loses,she may not see the item and the money and be slapped with a $20 chargeback fee.

When getting paid via Paypal,we do not get to talk to his cc issuer,nor do we know what he told his cc issuer,he could say seller would not let me return the item,so now he wins and get to keep the item.

if you have your own merchant account,your account provider will fight for you and relay what you said and what they said,with Paypal,nothing.

[DPCreations]

@Whac-A-Mole does a much better job than I can do with examples which show how real internet selling risks are.  There are factors that are not directly controlled by the seller and they can have negative cost impacts for the seller.  PayPal policies give the idea of where PayPal will intervene, but that is not a perfect method.

[pricewizard0011]

You see....thats the straight answer...Thank you!

I know who am i dealing with and like i said before its not about the money i am not getting it back anyway.

I did provide the screenshot from USPS website and the tracking number. Here is the tracking number so you can checki it for your self if you want EE002183624RS. I have nothing to hide.

Regards...