Suing PayPal

[Hiram29]

Has anyone sued paypal for working against you for a chargeback? <removed>, a convicted credit card fraud criminal who ebay banned is doing chargebacks through paypal. Paypal ignores my proof like positive feedback left by buyer, emails from the buyer that he is happy with purchase and proof of delivery. I am not the only person he is doing this to. As far am I am concerned Paypal is an accomplice to this fraud. I have no choice but to hire a lawyer and sue paypal for there lack of protection encouraging criminal activity.

[DPCreations]

What I meant is that you have not disclosed details of the sale.

Did you ship to the buyer's PayPal address?

Is online tracking part of the PayPal transaction?  If so, what does PayPal show?

Does your product qualify for PayPal seller protection?

Did the PayPal transaction detail indicate OK to ship?

Did the PayPal transaction detial page indicate that you were eligible for Seller protection?

[Hiram29]

Yes to all and tracking shows it was delivered. Paypal activity page shows seller protection eligible. At first I sent paypal the ebay's transaction showing it was delivered. Yesterday I sent them the Paypal transaction for the label. I don't understand why they say based on proof they won't cover chargeback but will attempt to recover it from the bank. Paypal is doing the same treatment to another seller who is getting a fraudulent chargeback from this guy. 

I don't care if I have to pay thousands for a lawyer to recover $83. It's the principle that a fraudulent chargeback is taking place against me that I will not tolerate. 

[tamster321]

Hi.  How did this work out for you??  I am going through the exact same thing!  My transaction was 100% legit on my end.  I did EVERYTHING required of me for the transaction to be "protected".  The "victim"  waited until Now to dispute the charge/purchase through his credit card company.  The transaction was done in April.  So I am told that i am not covered by seller protection by paypal because the credit card company took the money from my account??  That makes no sense.  When I asked paypal if that meant any credit card company could go into my paypal account and take money?  This is absurd.  I cannot believe paypal is letting this occur.  They are willing to loose my business over $40ish (including the $20 paypal has the nerve to charge me for a chargeback)  It maybe not much money but it is the principle.  If I don't get satisifaction from paypal, I will be closing my account and donate all my things to charity that I have to sell.  Btw, I sell my items through ebay and treat there sellers just as bad as paypal.  Oh ya, and will also make a complaint to bbb.

[Hiram29]

My chargeback got reversed in my favor which is shocking. Another seller I was in contact with lost his appeal with the same crook who did the chargeback to me. I had a negative paypal balance while it was being disputed and paypal harassed me with phone calls and sent a collection agency after me. The guy who did the chargeback also returned empty envelopes to ebay coin sellers and filed fraudulent USPS insurance claims. I filed a mail fraud claim, got a case number and was told by a USPS financial crimes investigator that paypal can't go after me while it's being investigated but they did anyway. This crook is back on paypal and ebay even after all the scams he did on ebay and the fraudulent paypal chargebacks. I'm closing my 17 year old account, it's not safe and paypal won't protect sellers for chargebacks unless its lost in the mail. Paypal should cover sellers if the chargeback is obvious fraud regardless of what the credit card bank says. Good luck with yours.

[evlitegroup]

Suing PayPal isn't viable in this instance. Look up your localities laws on suits.

You'll have to file suit against the buyer for fraud, lost income, fees etc. As well as file a complaint with the postmaster for mail fraud.

I've only had to do it once on a eBay sale, and won and git my money plus fees and lost income. But that's becuase he never showed up. In Michigan for example(my state) it doesn't matter if the other party is in Michigan, or Russia, state law is if you do business with anyone in Michigan the state has jurisdiction over you in any suit and you have to travel to the state to defend the claims.

As far as your reasoning it makes no sense, as PayPal shows the exact reason, most cc chargebacks are for unauthorized transactions. I've had two in a year, one for 578.00 last October, which I won, and one for 200 right now. In both cases I submitted 20+ screenshots and logs to PayPal, then called them immediately and they immediately refunded the amount to my PayPal pending the CC company outcome.

But I'm also not rude or anything and I keep calm, I only do about 3k/ month ish(but having a record month this month as I've sold 30 xiaomi mi drones this month alone(450.00/each for the 1080p and 500/ea for the 4k versions) and I ship all over the world including many of the biggest scam countries on record.

[Hiram29]

In my case Paypal did not give me the reason for the chargeback other than credit not processed. That is very vague as it does not give an exact reason and Paypal would not tell me if the buyer claimed he returned it, didn't receive it or didn't get what he paid for. Paypal sent a collection agency after me while the chargeback was being disputed.

I did file a mail fraud case and have a case number. I made a police report is his state, not mine. My next step was to hire a lawyer but I ended up winning the chargeback. Another ebay victim lost his chargeback that I had been in contact with. This guy with a two time prison record for theft scammed many people on ebay and Paypal.

Now both ebay and Paypal let this crook buy and sell under a new user name which tells me profits mean more than protecting customers. 

[zyky]

Just had a chargeback claim end of August. The buyer received a brand new item as described in my listing on EBAY. Buyer claimed it was "not as described". The item, a book was in mint condition. The buyer won and I lost $269.18.  I was never told how the item was not as described only that the Credit Card Issuer sided with the buyer. For all I know, this buyer marked/damaged the book & sent a photo as proof. There are only 12 photos allowed on my listing, how am I to take photos of all the page? Anyways, the buyer will not return the book. The buyer will not answer any emails from me or an email from PayPal asking for the book to be returned. I tried phoning, but they will not pick up. What am I to do? The buyer got a full refund and I have lost $269.18. I don't care if the Credit Card Company sided with the buyer. Fine give them a refund, but not until the book is returned to me. PayPal has said there is nothing to do, but contact the buyer directly. This buyer is a fraud and has gotten away with it. And PayPal's Policy on Chargebacks condones this Fraudulent Activity, and more and more buyers go this route, because they can get away with it. To get a full refund & keep an expensive item. I have been having anxiety & sleepless nights since this Chargeback started. As far as I am concerned, PayPal is to blame, they stole money out of my account without my consent to give to a fraudulent buyer without asking for the item to be returned first. I ask everyone : If you go to the store and buy an item for $300, and then you want to get your money back because you don't like it, will the store give you a $300 refund without returning the item? I think not, you definately have to return the item.  How is this transaction any different? Both are sales. How does PayPal refund without the item being returned. I was never asked if I wanted the item returned. If I had been asked, I would have said yes, absolutely, enen at my expense, and when I receive it, then you can go ahead and refund. To me this Activity is Fraud and totally unfair to the Seller. Can we as Sellers join together and start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against PayPal? Or does anyone know if there is one started already so I can join? I am so, so mad, I can't believe this has happened. I cannot rest until I get some resolution to this unfair case. I want my item or money back. Can anyone help? Thanks.

[kernowlass]

@zyky

If you had not used paypal but had accepted a card payment from your buyer direct then the outcome would have been the same.

If a credit card company decide in favour of their card account holder then they never ask for the item to be returned, they just recoup the buyers payment.

That does not take away your right to take the buyer to the small claims court if you have enough proof to see if you can recover those costs.

[zyky]

Thanks, I will look into it. 

[kernowlass]

@zyky

Just one more thought, if the buyer knows you are considering this route then they may return the item voluntarily.

Also if the transaction was on Ebay did you know you can get their telephone number via advanced search > contact member.

Good luck.