Significantly Not As Described return for refund....if buyer pays for return shipping

[namestreetcity]

According to the Paypal process when you file a claim for an item that is significantly not as described, you must return the item at your cost in order for Paypal to issue a refund for the amount you paid, not the return shipping costs. You have 10 days to provide Paypal with a tracking number. Paypal doesn't allow you to post a reply. You send the item back or in 10 days the claim is closed.

Buyers are being forced to pay to received goods the seller didn't described accurately, and in some cases, honestly.

I think that is wrong.

When you can prove that an item is significantly not as described, then Paypal should refund your entire costs of the item including shipping both ways. Sellers can take advantage of Paypal's forcing buyers to pay for return shipping.

If a buyer doesn't like something or changes their mind, and wants to return it, then the return shipping should be paid by the buyer.

[shadowstreaker]

It's good that you are trying to confirm the model before bidding on the unit since there is the likelyhood that it isn't the version you're hoping it will be.

As you state, the seller for the unit you bought does indicate that buyer pays for return shipping - BUT that really should be in context of the obligation that the seller is shipping the actual unit listed and not an SNAD.  If the unit shipped matches the quality, description, etc, of the listing then in cases of buyer remorse it would be reasonable that the buyer should pay for return shipping. 

However, for any other problem due to the seller's error or SNAD, etc, then the seller should be responsible for taking care of the problem and the buyer should NOT have to expend any of his money to correct the situation.  There really should be two clearly stated policies on PayPal and eBay listings:

  In the case of buyer remorse, buyers must pay for return shipping.

  In the case of SNAD or DOA, the seller is responsible for return shipping costs and may either provide a pre-paid return shipping label to the buyer or other seller arranged returns (that doesn't impose an undue burden on the buyer) or provide a refund to the buyer for return S/H costs.

In the case of a item not received, of course there isn't any return costs involved.

This would obviously make sellers more dedicated in ensuring that their items matched their listings and that items were properly packed.  This is simply how it should be, no if's, ands or buts.  The only thing not covered is if the carrier responsible for the safe shipping of the item should damage it.  Supposedly, they usually only cover items if insurance is taken out although I believe PayPal assumes this risk since their policy is based on what the condition of the item is when the buyer receives it and doesn't distinguish blame as to belonging to either the seller or the carrier.

PayPal and eBay need to make the two statements I identify above regarding return costs, as absolute policy.  There aren't any reasons not to except that it allows dishonest sellers (and even good sellers if they decide to) to get away with selling SNAD or DOA items on purpose, since it wouldn't cost them anything even if they had to refund the original costs, they wouldn't have to pay for the return S/H and therefore they aren't out any money BUT the buyer now has to pay to return a bad item and the transaction has cost the buyer  money to return the item with no product, wasted time and effort. 

Frankly, I rarely use eBay anymore due to this reason as well as their foolishly high pricing structure and fees for selling on eBay especially when combined with the PayPal fees.  They make more money than what retailers and credit card companies do for doing the same thing.  eBay needed to acquire PayPal to make eBay easier for buyers to use and trust which helped PayPal because when they first started they weren't very reputable.  However, over time, the monopoly of eBay and PayPal on the eBay platform has made them too arrogant and believing they can raise their fees ever higher without consequences.  They'll find that they've priced themselves out of what used to be the reason people came to eBay - couple that with the bad policy this thread has raised, well, it's what's killed many other businesses - they get too big and unresponsive, believing they do no wrong and don't police themselves or the bad people using the platform as they ought to.   Got off topic but I think it reflects what I've experienced and heard/read what others are saying about eBay/PayPal.

[BINOVC]

My seller just emailed me that they are sending me a prepaid shipping label!  Faith in humanity restored again!

[TC-5491]

This happened to me also.  I returned a shipment that was not anything like what I ordered for $430 and returned the shipment for $36 at PayPal's insistence.  The only problem is that I returned it 11 days after the claim was filed so now PayPal will not do anything and I am out $436.  I also am considering not doing business anymore with eBay and PayPal.

[shadowstreaker]

I'm sorry but your statement as a whole is confusing and seems contradictory in that in order to file a claim, you HAVE to wait a certain number of days after having paid for it and then you have to wait so many days after a claim is filed to escalate it to a dispute.  Now on top of that, there are deadline dates past which if action wasn't filed or taken that you can't either proceed or continue the claim/dispute.  

Now if you had asked PayPal about what's involved in a claim/dispute and how return shipping is handled, they would inform you that based on current policy, the buyer would have to return the item to the seller at buyers cost. 

Now, did you follow the directions in the PayPal resolution center and emails you would have received regarding the claim and any the seller would have posted (if they responded, if not then your claim would be in your favor by default).  Usually, if the seller replies that they'll accept the return then you don't have to wait to return it but you must make sure you get online tracking for it.  If the seller disagrees for whatever reason, then after so many days (stated in the resolution center for your account) you can escalate your claim to a dispute and PayPal will review the case and they may ask the buyer/seller for information and then make a decision as to what they decide.  You then would be informed of their decision and if in your favor, they would inform you to return it with tracking, etc.

So at what stage of this claim were you at when you returned the item.  Did the seller tell you to return it?  Did you get a notice from Paypal (and would be indicated in the resolution center) that they had decided in your favor and for you to return the item as directed?

If you didn't follow the timeframes and just sent it back on your own then you messed up.  You need to carefully read the policies and steps to have the best chance of not doing something at the wrong time and short circuiting your claim/dispute.  You can appeal and they may still deny your claim but it's worth the effort.  Make sure you had tracking to prove you returned the item otherwise they will NOT accept or believe the item was returned to the seller.  To appeal, look up in the policies (try "appeals" in their search box under the help section) or call them and ask how to file an appeal.   Of course, if you had tracking, at least you can ask them to have the shipper return the item back to you if they don't allow the appeal since you paid for the item (of course you'd have to pay for it to be shipped to you again but that's how it goes at this point).  The seller doesn't have the right to keep the item that you've returned to him, it's your property unless it was agreed they would refund upon the return.  You can also do a charge back on your credit card if you paid Paypal using a CC or go to small claims court if the seller then keeps the item.

So you see, there's a lot involved in a claim/dispute process and your post doesn't properly provide information as to if you deviated from the process and at what point since normally if you followed the steps, only then would you have been advised when to return the item.  Let us know what you did if you care to.

[TC-5491]

Let me be more specific.  I  bought 3 items for $430.  I received 3 entirely different items that were worth about $225.  I filed a dispute that was escalated to a claim.  I tried to negotiate with the seller so that I would keep what was sent but that the difference in value would be refunded to me.  The only thing that I could do with PayPal was to either "close" the claim or send the merchandise back.  I certainly did not want to close the claim so I sent the items back.  Because I sent them back one day after the 10 day window PayPal closed my claim and will not do anything to help.  I now will file a dispute with my CC company and work with them.  Can you comprehend this or do I need to give more info?

[BINOVC]

I reported the item that I mentioned above.  Hopefully ebay will take action before somebody buys another SNAD.  I contacted Garmin and they confirmed that the box would have "Quest 2" printed on it.  I advised the seller, but he so far refuses to edit the auction.  I provided this seller strong evidence that he's misrepresenting the item.  Instead he refers to a note on his auction page:

ATTENTION BIDDERS: The only information we have about this item is from the item itself. If you would like additional information please contact the manufacturer or do an internet search.  THIS IS NEW IN BOX WORKING

[shadowstreaker]

To BINOVC, you did all you could do by reporting it to eBay.  I've done the same thing and sometimes I've noticed the listing got removed and other times not.  Not sure as to whether those that weren't pulled were because they were backlogged or felt it wasn't in violation, etc.

The seller is RESPONSIBLE for accurately portraying what is being sold.  They cannot just ignore requests for clarification nor tell buyers to research it by contacting the manufacturer when they should do that themselves.  If a seller is advised that there is a question about its authenticity, version, etc, it is their responsibility to make sure their listing accurately reflects what is offered, not the buyers responsibility.  The buyers responsibility is to make sure that the item listed would meet their needs so as to avoid buyer remorse.  This seller needs to be restricted by eBay until they can demonstrate in listing evaluations presented to eBay that they understand their responsibility to the eBay community.

[shadowstreaker]

To TC-5491,

Not happy with your last sentence where you insult me.  I COMPREHEND very well.

It appears that you have trouble communicating effectively.

I posted back various aspects to try to figure out what was going on in your claim process in order to possibly help you since you weren't clear in your post.

You could have and should have indicated that your situation was at the point where Paypal had reviewed the claim and made a decision in your favor for a refund by returning the items and informing them of the tracking info within 10 days.  Plenty of time, at the very least, to print off the return shipping label via Paypal with the tracking option and informed them, regardless of if you sent the item back within ten days.  You could have actually even held off on shipping it although that would delay when the seller received it and your refund posted but that's acceptable.

It was a simple case of YOU NOT doing what the Paypal instructions required - providing them with the tracking info - and you could have simply related that this is what was going on in your case.  Instead, you talk about trying to negotiate with the seller, which is typically what the dispute phase is for, as after that, in the claim phase, it's in Paypal's hands unless you and the seller reach a decision BEFORE they make their decision, as once they make their decision it's all over. 

And that's what you neglected to clearly state in your posts.  The decision had been made by Paypal and you were upset because you still wanted to negotiate with the seller.

The claim phase was OVER, DONE, a DECISION was made, no more interaction between you and the seller could occur.  YOU missed the boat because you didn't COMPREHEND the steps and requirements involved and FAILED to provide the tracking information in the ten day time frame.

You also failed to COMPREHEND that this thread was about the issue regarding the aspect of the SNAD policy that FORCES THE BUYER TO PAY FOR RETURN SHIPPING instead of the seller, NOT about your missing a deadline requirement.  Your post should have gone into a different topic since you weren't complaining about this issue but about your FAILURE to comply with the claim requiement deadlines.

[tl1]

i think that it is wrong for the buyer to have to pay for return shipping for a wrong item because the seller can add on restocking fees plus the return shipping . Why should I have to pay for a scoundrel to ship me junk and misrepresented items to me that I had no intention on wanting think and seeing that what was advertised to me wasnt what I wanted in the first place. I am litterally paying for this junk and having to give it back to the seller so he ends up with both the money and the item and it didn't cost him a dime since I paid all of the shipping.  this is a lousy and really unfair practice to the buyer. I am glad that ebay is starting to refund money to its rightful owner without the scam that goes on with suspicious sellers and paypal;s policies. P.S If  I buy something and I return it just because I dont want it any longer, when it is totally what I expected, then I agree to pay for return shipping. I'll debate any and all who disagree with what I have stated in this reponse. Thank you!  And if you agree with me let it be known. 

[noname]

As a seller with 100% rating, I agree completely. it is simply good business. I accept returns, refund the money and pay the shipping.

What I do not agree with is the "on hold" PayPal  policy. I am forced to wait for 21 days to be paid. Then if the buyer likes the item, gives me a positive rating, releases payment and is happy I finally get paid.  Well ok, that could be considered good business, but it is a hassle for me. First I am subject to the buyers whims. Not if the item is faulty or not,  just his whims!  I am also forced  to wait & see if i get paid or not. I may have paying buyers in line for that item. I am already under legal obligation to refund payment if they are not satisfied.

If get a PayPal payment  "On Hold" I email the buyer right away and tell them I cannot do it unless I am paid.  If they dont like the item They can return it with a full refund AND shipping paid by me.

As a Buyer, also with 100% rating,  I will not do this "on hold" thing. It is just plain the right thing to do.