PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

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489 REPLIES 489

shawnhensontn
Contributor
Contributor

im pasting a link to this posting to my store and in each item description so BUYERS know whats going on behind the scene..

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shawnhensontn
Contributor
Contributor

here is what i get from the buyer.. (THANK YOU PAY PAL - Buyers are NOT understanding)


 

 Shawn... you should have explained this in your listing.  I have paid for the printer IN FULL plus the shipping thru pay pal...so the expenses are covered and in your pay pal account.  I expect the printer to be shipped as advertised or I will file a complaint with EBAY.  I have saved your message to me & will forward to ebay if necessary to substantiate my claim.

--- On Fri, 2/26/10, Shawn Henson  wrote:

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Sideliner
Contributor
Contributor

It is for this exact reason that you will still be able to print shipping for the item in question from the PayPal website using your held funds.

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anonymous5
Member
Member

Hey guys. I just called them and explained my situation (buyer is refusing to leave feedback, it was a digital delivered item so i cannot provide a tracking number etc). I told them that if the funds were not released to me today that I would be filing a class action lawsuit in addition to the one they are already facing. They transfered me twice, and finally said "we'll do this once for you, courtesy, but never again - its ebays fault". Just call them up and **bleep**/dont take no for an answer.

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cheap101
Member
Member

Paypal has just gotten to big and full of itself,

my problem is minor, i puchase an item on 4/2/10 and pain immediatelt, shipper waited 8 days to ship.

 

 

GOGUNPAL

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pikachoo
Contributor
Contributor

It certainly IS NOT an upfront simple close & shut case to get your funds BEFORE 21 days. It seems that the more you kindly ask for positive feedback to be left the more the buyer digs in and refuses for some god-for-saken reason. I've even made long distance nice phone calls to my customers and that only resulted in more delays. Some people just do not leave feedback for some reason and paypal will not under any circumstances release those funds until positive feedback is left. Then us sellers have to consider do we share this policy with our buyers while trying to get them to leave positive feedback and the reasons behind it? Even though paypal email message that informs us "it in no way refelects upon our record" and "that we have done nothing wrong" then why in hail does paypal put a hold on our funds if we have done nothing wrong?

 

I'm not sure about every other buyer, but BEFORE this happened to me had a seller sent me a message stating paypal was holding their funds until I left feedback etc I CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE THOUGHT FRAUD on the sellers part and that they must've done something wrong for paypal to do this. So explaining this problem to our buyers is not in our best interest. I learned the hard way. A disgruntled buyer left me my first negative, as retaliation for me filing a non-paying bidder after 4-5 days of no contact from buyer and refusal to reply my emails etc. Paypal will probably never release the funds now. Even though the negative only stated I was "rude" for filing the non-pay. Buyer was happy with item but not the non-paying alert. I'm sure every seller has at one time ran across one of these. Oh! You hear from them immediately AFTER you file a non-pay.

 

 

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Ted_Maul
Contributor
Contributor

Dear Amanda

 

After visiting your link https://www.paypal.com/paymentholds. I am even more confused as I satisfy ALL, every single one, of the necessary criteria including the patronising bits about processing orders right away and communicating. How else do you think I have 100% feedback?

 

Can you therefore please tell me why I have had and currently have payments pending?

 

 

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carmensmom03
Member
Member

That is great that paypal is trying to make it a convience for buyers and a pleasent experience for buyers. But what about us sellers. How are we supposed to ship the times that we are chargin shipping for without the funds. There is a reason we charge shipping HELLO we are real people we dont have money coming out of our ears. Oh i sold this so i will take the money out of my own pocket to ship it and then wait for themoney to clear. When you go into a store you pay up front and you leave with your item. You cant say to the store oh i am going to wait until i go home and leave you feedback before i come and pay for it. Paypal is thinking more of the buyers and less of the sellers. Soon the sellers are going to go elsewhere to do theri transactions and paypal will lose the buyers because there will be no sellers who want to deal with paypal anymore.

This is the third time that this has happened to me. I am an ebay seller and i have 100% positive feedback. My most recent transaction was from a buyer who had a zero feedback and had changed his ebay name twice. Yet paypal told me to ship the item. Out of my own pocket of course because the funds were on hold. How can that be that i am the one who is at rish when i have the 100% feedback and am verified with ebay and paypal, yet they had a zero feedback and not verified.

PAYPAL YOU ARE MAKING NO SENSE!!!!

 

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pinkdiamond
Member
Member

With almost $1300 being held and no money to ship items (well I wasn't going to use my own money), I did some investigating.  I noticed that Paypal got their fees and RAN, yes they got their fees.  My work around - UPS DOES NOT charge to create shipping labels and will bill you to ship.  If you set up an account you may notice you already have a UPS account, but use the account number for the NEW UPS account.  You can verify which account number goes to which UPS account (you get the idea).  And to my surprise the shipping was CHEAPER through UPS directly online.  Also this idea of printing shipping labels through EBAY without a charge - didn't work.  Still trying to figure out about the money being held, but at least I got the items shipped without spending money out my pocket. 

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chester
Member
Member

you have held my money long enough for me to decide paypal will never get a penny from me.

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