PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

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489 REPLIES 489

adougharrell
Contributor
Contributor

I totally agree with this summary of Paypal's activity.  It appears to be totally illegal to me unless they plan to pay interest on the funds.  There is no justification to this long hold on funds!

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Christie88
New Community Member

 When buyers start complaining enough, thats when it WILL BE CHANGED OR STOPED.. I just sold a antique wash pot for $150 and got a hold.. I WILL NOT SHIP , I WILL CANCIL ORDER, AND I WILL RELIST WITH DIFFERENT TERMS THAT BENEFIT ME..

 This buyer is going to lose his/her mind because it was a steal of a deal..When the buyers start causing a stink is when something will happen..Paypal dont care about the seller..Well this policy just cost them a bundle, I AM GOING TO MAKE MUCH MORE MONEY, AND THE BUYER OF MY ITEM IS GOING TO BE IRATE.. ALREADY STATING that they have been looking for this item forever and getting a deal on it also was christmas..

 I HAVE 77 Transactions with 100% positive feedback in all transactions.. I have played there game on numerous items, waiting for funds to be released to get paid..Like  5 to 6 times total..Well the buck stops here on a $175 transaction.. This item weighs 60 llbs  and costs around $50 to ship..Im not paying for it and waiting forever to get it back..

  Good luck everybody, I gotta go end an item and relist..................

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jeriv
Contributor
Contributor

I f you, had a tracking # you should have put it in. Next to the item on the paypal page. Next to Details  click it and add tracking #.  That's how they know it's delivered.

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stealingmymoney
Contributor
Contributor

I think this is a bunch of BS holding my money for nothing. I had no clue that paypay started doing this and I have sold on eBay for almost 4 years now and I have never had a payment to be put in a pending state. I don't sell all the time but when I do I don't fell I should have to be punished by paypal. I have gave eBay and paypal the tracking info for all of the items I have shipped and all have been delivered but my money is still on hold. I notice eBay and paypal take their fees out before they put my money on hold.I have contacted paypal about this and I was told that they started doing this back in 2008 but this is the first time I've had any problem and it will be the last. I am through with paypal and ebay.They are just hurting themselves by doing this.

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boomboxer
Contributor
Contributor

yI literally just sold my first item on ebay and the buyer paid instantly and I log in to paypal and see it's pending. Wow! I had no idea that this could be done.  I need the money from the payment to send my item... so now I feel embarrassed.  I have another auction currently up and I may have to cancel it because of this holding payment policy.  Quite sad... I guess I'll have to ask for a money order next time.

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Arlykat
Contributor
Contributor

@boomboxer wrote:

yI literally just sold my first item on ebay and the buyer paid instantly and I log in to paypal and see it's pending. Wow! I had no idea that this could be done.  I need the money from the payment to send my item... so now I feel embarrassed.  I have another auction currently up and I may have to cancel it because of this holding payment policy.  Quite sad... I guess I'll have to ask for a money order next time.


 

I don't think they allow money orders because they won't make any money off of them.

--------------

 

I've been reading this thread for two days now. I am about to start selling again on eBay after a 6 year hiatus and I have over 3000 positive feedbacks. I am now soooooo discouraged over all of this idiotic and seemingly criminal actions of PayPal collecting interest on all the money it is holding from sellers for such a long time for such stupid reasons. I'm really hoping to find a large list of whatever places people can recommend that I can use to sell on eBay and not use PayPal yet have people pay me by using other places online that wil still be allowed by eBay. I don't have a store or my own credit card system to use. Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing what other people are using. I've only heard mention of google offering something and I'll try to find where and what that is. IN THE MEANTIME, HERE IS A LIST OF LOCATIONS OF PAYPAL AND EBAY HEADQUARTERS.

"On October 3, 2002, PayPal became a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay.[3] Its corporate headquarters are in San Jose, California, United States at eBay's North First Street satellite office campus. The company also has significant operations in Omaha, Nebraska; Scottsdale, Arizona; and Austin, Texas in the U.S., " eBays headquarters are still, I believe, in San Jose, CA.

What I highly suggest is that people sit down and send an email to the Attorney General of California and also in whatever state they live in with a short paragraph about what is happening and these links directly to the thread we are talking on. That link is

 

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/eBay/PayPal-pending-payment/m-p/16477#M3220. The link to the main community site is

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/eBay/bd-p/eBay. I am pretty sure the first link brings you right to the beginning of this thread.

Generally, to find the email address of your state's Attorney General you type in your state.gov (i.e. CA.gov) and then search for Attorney General. 90% of the time 's office lists their email address for you to contact them directly. I have found they always get the message and they always respond when you write to them. Let's just all get together and make PayPal even more popular than it is by having each States' highest legal attorney read a little bit more about them that they'll find in the links above. I do hope people act on this, it does take one drop of water to begin a flood and PayPal needs to be flooded by interest of each individual state's Attorney General. Let's do this.

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ra69
Contributor
Contributor

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!  I've been selling on e-Bay for years and using PayPal.  All of the sudden, with a 100% positive feedback rating, PayPal holds my payment.  So now I have to buy a tracking number from USPS that PayPal won't repay to get my money sooner.  Is this what I'm paying PayPal's FEE for???  To hold MY money even though a legitimate transaction took place on e-Bay.  By the way, who does a thing like this?  No legitimate business holds money - refunds at a retail store are credited immediate; withdrawal funds from a bank immediately; Visa/MC doesn't hold credits...BUT PayPal does!

 

And, YES, PayPal will either give you a canned meaningless answer or, like I was told, it's e-Bay's policy, which I quickly found out was false.  "PayPal Amanda" said, "This policy helps buyers feel more confident in a successful transaction and helps to manage costs effectively for everyone."  Apparently she must consider everyone to be pretty stupid that she would write such an idiotic thing.  How is PayPal helping me to "manage costs" by them holding my money?  Amanda, you don't have to have a degree to see that the only ones that this policy benefits is PayPal because it certainly is NOT benefiting the seller.  Amanda, does PayPal hold payments to other companies (Sears and the like)?  Businesses can be just as unreliable as an individual.

 

Also, there's the mysterious "dashboard" that rates sellers separately than the feedback system.  A seller cannot access this unless he/she has 10 positive whatevers at one time.  These points fall of after a certain amount of time so the occasional e-Bay seller may never be able to see his/her dashboard.  Buyers can leave feedback on the dashboard that you are not able to access.  I was told this benefited me (the seller) but I was not given a reason how.

 

One other thing: I signed up with PayPal and am willing to pay a FEE thinking that this was a guaranteed way to receive a payment and that I wouldn't get scammed by a bad buyer sending a "check".  But now the line is becoming blurred.  Interesting thing is that I can't hold my fee to PayPal, which they get THEIR money immediately!  I think we deserve a truthful explanation from PayPal or this ridicules policy rescinded.

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Guito2323978
Contributor
Contributor

I have myself dealt with this issue from Paypal before, and I personally think Paypal should not have the right to hold any amount of funds from an item sold on Ebay, they take a percentage of your money, as well as Ebay, and then think they have the right to hold it for a pre determined amount of time. For example they claim they hold funds for high risk items ie electronics, jewelry, software, video games, etc. The fact is they will put a hold on anything, I recently had them put a hold on a lot of jeans I sold because they sold for over $100.00 the item was shipped the next day, and the buyer has received them, I sent the buyer an email politely asking to please leave positive feedback upon receiving, inspecting, and be assured the item was of the same quality described that paypal was currently holding the funds until positive feedback was left. My girlfriend had a very successful reputation on eBay with over 100 feedback score and 100% positive feedback then paypal started holding what they called a rolling reserve which was 10% of all sales each day because she sold what they claimed was high risk for charge back (jewelry) so she stopped taking paypal on her online jewelry store and simply used it for eBay sales (because you have no other choice) then they started holding 10% of all sales at one point they had over $800.00 in reserve pending in her account it got to a point where she could not ship items out because of the amount they were holding as well as the money she had to spend on purchasing the item (she drop shipped some items) she ended up having her reputation ruined a bunch of buyer complaints because of being unable to pay for items to ship. Then they started taking 10% of gift money which sent her over the edge. She told me not to bother selling on eBay or taking paypal. The predicament I am in now is the funds they are holding on an item that has been delivered has been delivered to a ebayer that does not leave feedback as a buyer even though she is also a seller. So I have to wait either the 21 days if paypal doesn't have their head up there rear and realize the item has already been delivered.

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clementine72
Contributor
Contributor

Well, I just wanted to update the discussion regarding my situation.  This morning my buyer finally gave me a positive rating and within about 15 min of her posting her rating, my money was released.  I was amazed.  The only reason I know is that I checked it this morning when I got to work and then about 15 minutes got an email from paypal saying the money was released, so amazingly they  released it pretty quickly.  I would like to hope someone is paying attention to these complaints but I am thinking it was just a fluke...

 

Good luck to all who are still dealing with this terrible business practice...

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Guito2323978
Contributor
Contributor

Oh and one last thing I forgot to mention, eBay will only accept Paypal as a payment form since they own them, even your merchant account has to be Paypal Pay Flow, My girlfriend has a merchant account through Intuit and when she tried to link it with eBay they told her her payment processor had to be Paypal, As far as setting up payments through Google most buyers would probably not go for that since its against eBays Policies, and as far eBay and Paypal having the same policies they are not even close a good example is eBay frowns upon refunding shipping of an item, but when a buyer files a complaint Paypal automatically includes your shipping charge in and will state unless you charge shipping seperately (receive a seperate payment for shipping) the full amount is available for refund once a buyer files a complaint, thats like Paypal is giving eBay a big middle finger saying hey thats what you suggest but thats not how we work, even though they are basically the same. Go figure

 

If you even suggest accepting money orders in your auction listing eBay will keep giving you an error message and will not let you post the auction.

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