PayPal pending payment
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I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.
FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.
There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.
QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?
PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.
QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?
The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this
The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.
In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.
QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?
Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.
As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.
QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?
Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.
QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?
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I agree with the post. Paypal charges a fee, keeps the money and earns interest. I'm a customer who has 100% feedback. No reason to keep my money hostage. I had no idea about the pending funds change.
This is my last sale on eBay and the last time I use Paypal. My online orders will be with a credit card and if I need to sell something I'll post it on craigslist.org.
I'm over it.
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Absolutely right. Paypal is abusing its memberswho are also Ebay sellers. I am a member with a 100% feedback score. I usually buy more items than I sell on Ebay, so the practice of placing 21 day holds on funds went unnoticed until I placed an item for sale. The winning bidder paid immediately and I shipped the next morning with a tracking number. The item was delivered. I furnished proof of delivery in a response to Paypal's email stating that I had been paid. That was five days ago. Paypal still has my money in "pending" status. I tried calling their Customer "Dis-service" number. The chump on the other end of the line did nothing but regurgitate - from a script no doubt. I am, from what I see here, certainly not the only member who is very upset about Paypal's practice. There are websites and blogspots all over the net with postings from people who are livid about this. Why not adjust this policy Paypal. Its great to give Ebay buyers some security, but the current "pending" debacle is overkill. Sellers should be notified with every posting if an item sold will result in their money being held. Twenty-one days is arbitrary and capricious. I'd love to join in a class action suit. Any good attorneys out there looking for a case ripe for the federal courts?
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I also have 100 percent feed back and there holding my money! How long do they hold it for? Th is is so pointless its my money I have sent the item and I cant have my money its **bleep** me off they get my merchendise yet I dont get my money WOW way to protect us
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Also I lost money on it I didnt even make anything off the item after I shipped it and now I cant have the money I spent Thanks a million !!!
Posted the item for 15$ & 4$ shipping SOLD
paid 1.65$ to to post it
Paid 16.35 to ship it
Paid .85 to paypal WOWOWOWOWOWo
way to go
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I am personaly thinking of only excepting postal money orders from now on . Paypal pending is helping no one except paypal . Paypal is making interest off of our money that is held . I have 100% feedback and have had no reason for my payment to be held but in the last 10 sales they have held 4 . It would be a little relief if they released atleast the shipping . Most people that sell on ebay are doing it because they need the money and more than likely in a timely manner , so how does Paypal expect sellers to come up with shipping when we dont have the money to begin with ? To make a buyer happy they want their item in a timely manner and if your item cost up in the $100's for shipping most people cant afford to pull that out of their pocket and wait till Paypals policy clears payment . I can understand if you are new to ebay and have less than 5 feedback to hold but after 5 positive you are more than likely an honest person . This just happened again to me today , I listed a laptop that i really liked but didnt use that much so i could pay a bill by Fri but now i can't , so now i wish i never sold . The only good thing is shipping isnt much . I really don't know how to resolve this with paypal , i have called them and all they tell me is to have buyer leave a positive feedback but who is going to do that without receiving item . Well paypal is a ebay company so no matter what route i take they will still make money off of me . Thanks for taking the time to read
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looks like paypal only repsonds to a topic once or that they have no real answer as to why paypal is pending our payments. I just had to refund a 54.00 sale today got a negative feedback due to not having money to ship the item out.
my bank money is for rent and regular bills not for paypal.
And paypal im posted a link to this forum in all my listing to help spread the word of what paypal is doing.
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LOL it gets better every day.
one of my customers got their item
its all good
asked for a feed back got this: I dont have to leave feedback its not manditory.
WTF paypal/ebay so we get **bleep**ed again.
I looked it up.. and wow it does say : its clickable so it goes right to the feedback policy whatever
They ASK the buyer to leave feedback there is NO wording saying that the seller you bought from will get their money upon feedback being left. NO ONE (other then us) knows that our money is being held up for a FEEDBACK.
I already know the tracking information built into paypal does not trigger our money being release. its the feedback being left for us.
I know there has to be some law being broke here. Lawyers want to chime in here.
Ebay and Paypal is the same company . The TOS should match on both sites as far as pending payments (well everythign dealing with money)
paypal would someone like to chime in here too WITHOUT a CANNED response
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I recently sold a watch on ebay to someone in China. I was willing to pay the fee for the international transaction - no problem. I recently went through a divorce situation, re-located to another state, am living in a borrowed room at a best friends house, and am on unemployment. The watch was my father's he left to me when he died. I am living unemployment check to unemployment check. The money is EXTREMELY tight and of course I am experiencing car problems that are costing money at the dealership - that never seems to happen when you are flush. I have a 100% rating and no issues with ebay or any buyers. The buyer paid paypal once we got the shipping settled and the money was in the account and held pending payment while paypal collected the interest on the money. Of course, ebay wanted their seller's invoice paid which came to $27.09 and I thought ok, fine, paypal will pay ebay but no, they deducted it from my checking account which overdrafted me automatically due to the timing of it and I am still in disbelief about the situation. Yes, I admit that I could have made a phone call and paid attention to the details of when ebay would deduct the sellers fees etc., etc., but to tell the truth, I have enough on my plate to worry about at the moment and am getting hit with costs from every angle and am totally focused on getting a job and paying for car repairs at the moment not tracking everything paypal or ebay does. I cannot believe that this controlling entity with their ambiguous details regarding the reasons money is held "pending" etc. is permitted to go on with a responsible money escrow/safe payment/moneyholdingtank banking institution like Paypal. I don't think or feel like they are my "pal" anymore. I have no idea how I am to pay this overdraft when I am worried about putting food in my mouth and gas in my car, etc. I am sure I am not the only one. I have read where other people have not been able to pay shipping etc. due to the funds being held. How do you do auction type business if you cannot utilize the funds you get paid from the buyers to ship or pack your product? How do you pay ebay when your money is being held? I am sure Paypal pays themselves the fees from the money the buyer pays, it already shows as deducted from the total amount why should they hold the money back from themselves? They don't. Due to the connection to our bank accounts (that alone consitutes a trust situation) this money should be available to us immediately to continue to do commerce and ebay and Paypal (same people - right?) should continue the same policy of holding sellers and buyers accountable for their actions through the policies they already have in place to prevent any fraudulent activity from occurring. I realize there are other reasons why this should not be permitted to happen but the truth is they get away with it. Bottom line, people like me in my situation are the ones "paypalling" the ultimate price for doing business with paypal when they can't access the funds they need to get their money on time.
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Hey PayPal, Why don't you front the $$ for everyone for shipping charges and then you (paypal wait the 21 days before recuping your shipping charges and your percentage.

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