Ko-Fi payments

Maddylin
Contributor
Contributor

Does paypal take a fee when accepting ko-fi transactions? For example, some one sent me $6 over Ko-Fi but I only received $5.54 in my paypal.

edit: and the payment was from someone using the same currency as me.

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28 REPLIES 28

Shark93
Contributor
Contributor

I agree with what @Gwynmina and @rainbowstarks said; but ultimately I ended up at the same conclusion as @Aldric-Cheylan on page 1 (sorry I think the forum put me on page 2 because I replied to Gwynmina? I didn't understand, so I re-posted as a non-replying post).

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JackAnton
Contributor
Contributor
There isn’t a way to avoid processing fee on your transactions but there are ways to reduce them. It requires creating a business account and activating micropayments by calling customer service or chatting with a live cs agent. For donations under $20 a transaction it’s better then paying standard processing fees. For example with micropayments activated your transactions under $20 US will be 4.99%+$0.09 USD. For Australia the 4.99% would still be the same but the second part of the fee formula is different per country so it would be 4.99%+$0.12 AUD.
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donutsoft
New Community Member

They sent me a donation via paypal link in the amount of $0.26. As a result: I received $0.0, paypal received $0.26. LoL.

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JackAnton
Contributor
Contributor

Ok, so here's the sad truth. When payment processing companies say they don't charge you (the recipient) fees, while technically true the subtleties in the fine print will make you think otherwise (at least from the perspectives of the one receiving a payment or sending payment). When trying to wrap your head around what's actually transpiring at the moment someone sends money be it any type of donation or payment for goods and/or services across the internet it's best to describe it in comparison analogous to something more common in everyday experiences. I think if we use the analogy of roads and highways as the financial network between banks not only will it;

 

1. Best describe what actually transpired during the payment transfer process but also, 2. Offers both recipients of the payment transfer processing party, be it the buyer/seller or donor/donee portion of the party, a more accurate perspective on what's happening to their money. And... 3. Empowered with the new knowledge of the above a chance of a best opportunity in either seeking out alternatives or to at least broach upon the topic to have a conversation that's in the best interest of the buyer/seller or donor/donee portion of the payment transfer processing party.

 

In an attempt to "show", and not just tell (what companies offer you as fine print and legalese jargon), what happens to money when it's transferring from bank to bank, ultimately how your getting paid; let's start by painting a picture of the backdrop these payment transfers are taking place in. Afterwards we'll animate stepwise the process to why you "are" being charged fees even though everyone else part to the party is saying otherwise. And lastly, and most importantly the cartoon that I'm about to draw into your head, the whole reason I'm being even bothered to explain it all; that cartoon's gonna help you understand how to maximize your donor profits if you're willing to be creative enough to spend just a little time towards funneling your patrons to a means to meet to the same exact ends (money in your pocket) but along an alternative path the money transfer can take place (putting more money in your pocket).

 

Tolls! Drive often enough and at some point in life we all encounter tolls. Just a quick assumption as you're driving through a toll is justifying giving you're hard earned money to the toll is acceptable. Tolls are necessary because tolls are a part of doing business when you're in the business of "building highways". If that thought has ever crossed your mind "tolls pay for the highway", crumple it up and throw it in the trash where it belongs because not only is it wrong but it perpetuates the idea tolls are a necessary evil to building roads and highways which are false. Taxes pay for roads and highways. The money you pay and give to the government in the form of taxes are what's paid to build your roads and highways. We'll get back to this later, but it's important to understand that governments are the ones in charge of making sure the roads are built and they are funded that by using your taxes. Most important, know that tolls don't pay for highways.

 

Fees, why? What are fees, why do we have them and why are they important if they are important but most important why am I being charged a fee at all. Fees are tolls! When someone wants to give you money online, requests money from their bank account goes into your bank account; in the past that transfer process happened over a network of telephone wires. These wires are a highway allowing banks to transfer money from one another. It's how different banks most efficiently move money from someone else's account into your account. Those telephone wires are owned by the telephone company; a government regulated utility. While the government may not own those lines the land beneath them is government owned, and the government leases out rights to use those lands to the utility company. So the only difference between a real highway and a telephonic highway that banks use is that governments pay a builder to build a highway on their land and then that highway is the government's property afterwards.

 

In our scenario understanding how money moves, the physical network and highway of wires they are owned by the utilities, but just like the government the utilities lease access to anyone willing to pay and so all the banks got together and created SWIFT a membership organization that leases from the utilities a private secure network of their telephone lines. Now the most important a key critical point to understand in the process to putting more money in your pocket. While SWIFT owns the highway the government sets the tolls on the banking highway. Why this is important is the tolls paid here are the lowest if not sometimes even just set to zero. ACH transactions are ones made from one bank account to another and for the most part the toll price is regulated zero in many cases. This is the method or rather the direction you want your money to be taking when someone offers to make a donation or payment into your bank account. You would think that this highway that's practically free would be the one everyone would be taking or want to take. Everyone should be funneling into this lane to transfer money around; is what you'd think but in actuality this government regulated highway owned by SWIFT isn't the only highway in town. There are other high speed highways which aren't government regulated but self regulated with different agreement practices linking inbetween one bank or another and they are called VISA or Mastercard etc. Credit card companies have their own highway of networks and they all set their own fees. Those companies all come together and create their own exchange nexus where they can just arbitrarily set toll prices on whatever money transfers pass through on their private highway network on their final destination between your bank and someone else's.

 

When someone decides to send you a donation using their debit card something interesting happens which almost everyone is unaware of. The method of payment and what process the sender has as a selection of how to send it dictates which highway system(s) it will travel on. If a sender writes you a check it's an ACH transfer traveling on the SWIFT network which is government regulated toll pricing. The government tells the banks what the rate is or what the range of the rate is allowed to be set at. So for example the government forces banks to charge no more then x amount of dollars. A bank maybe limited to $0.40 to process a check or between $3-8 when processing a bank ATM fee. typically most toll fees on the SWIFT network are set in whole numbers and fixed whereas private highway networks like the ones from VISA and Mastercard can charge you on a percentage of the entire transaction; balance transfers for example can cost upwards of 10% of the balance transfer plus on top an additional fixed fee. They set the rates on their private networks. What more interesting concerning the above, I can use the same debit card to pay for my groceries and if I treat it as a debit using my PIN number that transaction goes in a different direction then if I select it as a credit and sign or not sign the purchase authorization. If I use my PIN the transaction spends most of its travel time on the SWIFT network and is cheaper for the merchant/grocery store to take on in toll prices. Unfortunately as a person receiving an online payment no where is their an option to let the buyer or donee enter a PIN number so almost all online transactions use the directions that hop them on to the SWIFT network of tolls and thus most transactions online are going to be taking the more expensive route of traveling on private highway networks like those owned by VISA or Mastercard. Not all online payments or transfers are stuck having to take a private highway to reach items destination though. Zelle is another option, Zelle uses the SWIFT network and typically is free with no fees.

 

Now here's your part and if you're clever and creative how to boost your bank account receiving payments or donations. Now that you understand how your money moves make that case known when someone lands on your donation page. By explaining the barriers of entry to a sender what happens to the money they donate you can offer them the alternatives but also not remove the option of what convenient to the sender because some money rather then no money is better, so the task is how to explain to a potential donor or buyer to funnel down a payment path those most beneficial to you while also at the same exact time not burden them from the plethora of options for sake of losing the sale or donation from TLDR.

 

Good luck peoples.

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Shark93
Contributor
Contributor

That was a bit long to read but it gave a lot of insights I didn't know about. What I know is that I was wondering the same as the OP: why Communities can set up PayPal DONATE buttons that... wait I minute, actually my own Community has paypal donations set up, but paypal still gets a fee out of those. 😅

 

@Gwynmina wrote:
2023 and we still have no option to designate Ko-fi as personal payments instead of business ones???
@rainbowstarks wrote:
What's the point of even using Ko-fi, I should just get people to go via PayPal ['s friends & family option]

I've been wondering the same two things; when I joined Ko-fi I wasn't expecting PayPal to take a cut, since Ko-fi keeps advertising about no fees... but the thing I realized is they imply no fees taken by themselves - Ko-fi - not by the payment processor (if you dig on their help site, the FAQ will point you to the fees article). What to take away from my post:

  1. friends&family is a user's payment type, they (Ko-fi) won't/can't use it
  2. even the paypal donation system comes with fees so... there's no escaping
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vixypoo
Member
Member

How do i receive payments under the goods and services category? In my country the payment only goes through if its under that category !

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@vixypoo 

 

Hard to advise if you don't actually say which country you are in !!


Advice is voluntary.
Kudos / Solution appreciated.
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Shark93
Contributor
Contributor
Nope, fees on donations are normal and that's what pays for the service that PayPal offers to ko-fi as a payment processing service. Even if you set up a donation widget directly through PayPal they will still take commissions out of that donation. Unfortunately the only way to receive a gift without fees is to ask the donator to send you the money directly via PayPal page and select friends and family option. Sadly, even though I completely understand your point and I've been in the same exact spot before, neither ko-fi nor PayPal run charities.. whilst it is true that, unless you want to heavily customize your ko-fi page (thus becoming a contributor on a 5% fee or something), ko-fi itself doesn't take a cut, PayPal as the payment processor still does (and donations will never use Friends & Family as payment type.. it's just not possible).
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ViviMelon
Contributor
Contributor

Aw, okay, that's unfortunate but understandable. Thanks for your reply ^^

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