Using 'payment on hold' as a scam

[retribution121]

So here begins the start of a terrible process that I assume PayPal and EBay will do everything possible to ignore...

I have sold and bought many items through EBay and I feel confident in their processes, I recently sold an Apple MacBook through EBay and got the instant emails from PayPal to say the payment has been received. At this point I didn't even log onto PayPal to transfer the money to my bank because I was in no rush. In the meantime I have packed and posted the item to the buyer, happy days...

Except! I log onto PayPal to transfer my money across and guess what! The payment is on hold! 

I have done as much research as possible and both PayPal and EBay's websites and helplines are as clear as mud and as much use as a chocolate teapot. But my understanding is the buyer can now dispute or even cancel his payment and hey-presto he has his money instantly back and now has my laptop.

This person is using PayPal's absolutely terrible "payment protection policies" to his advantage as a way of scamming me out of £400!

I bet a further £400 the payment on hold that I am talking about gets refunded back to the buyer, I also bet PayPal and EBay do absolutely nothing to help me and will ignore this post and any effort I make to contact them or challenge this.

If this is the case and I loose the £400 I will be leaving EBay and PayPal for ever, and I will make it my life mission to tweet, post and do what ever I can to ensure everyone knows how awful their services and policies are, how little protection sellers get and how easy it is to be scammed.  

Well done PayPal you have done yourselves proud...

[kernowlass]

@retribution121

Your buyer doesn't even know that your payment is on hold which I presume is Ebays new seller hold?

If the buyer opens a dispute for non receipt of item OR item received but not as described then even if the funds are in your bank account you would have to refund if paypal found in the buyers favour.

BUT if you refused to refund paypal would have to do so under buyer protection and so for new sellers OR for high cost items paypal puts the payment on hold so the funds are there in case a dispute is lodged.

You are in no more danger of having a dispute opened as you would be if you withdrew the funds instantly.

If you send trackable funds are normally released on day of delivery + 3 days.

[retribution121]

As a buyer you can see if your payment has gone into hold so yes my buyer does know, and I believe my buyer has done this on purpose and if he knows how to get the payment put on hold it doesn't matter if he can/can't see it because he knows it has.

The statement around a buyer opening a dispute and getting a refund that way is opening up and entire new can of worms that I also fully disagree with but at this time don't want to go into at this time. But I will say this: Buyers are protected to the hilt, so much so they can now abuse the system and get away with it! But sellers get completely shafted in every single way and I am yet to see a policy that truly protects a seller and not the jargon that is placed on PayPal's websites but doesn't actually protect a seller in the slightest. 

As you have stated and reading through all of the jargon PayPal use to disguise their poor policies it is now a waiting game to see if the funds are released to me or somehow withdrawn and given back to the "buyer" / scammer. 

[kernowlass]

@retribution121

Buyers can ONLY see if their payment is on hold in THEIR paypal account IF its a pending echeque OR its pending / unclaimed.

If its pending under the new seller hold then NO the buyer is unaware of that.

I and millions of other sellers on and off Ebay have been through this hold.

Paypal provides 'some' buyer and 'some' seller protection, the rest is up to us to risk assess our transactions.

I have lost out as a buyer AND as a seller but put that down to the risks of online buying and selling.

Nothing is 100% safe.

As i said your funds are released when tracking shows the item as delivered + 3 days. Your buyer has NOTHING to do with it unless they open a dispute for non receipt of item OR item received but not as described.

[retribution121]

So, todays update!

First of all, I have become to realise how awful this forum is to navigate! I couldn't even find it until I searched for myself as a user, very worrying that this thread will just get lost in the sea of an intentionally poor layout.

But!

 Never the less I shall continue everyday with an update and I will begin to add other platforms to share my frustrations until we see the outcome.

So todays update: Money is still on hold (no surprises there)

But I have had a response to my complaint through the PayPal website and guess what... It was an automated response that simply copied and pasted their policy info relating to my complaint. How productive...

The best part about their response was;

'As a valued customer we want to help you make the most of your PayPal account. We prefer that you don't need to wait for an answer, so we’ve replied with this automatic message.'  

What a joke! What this actually means is : As a annoying customer that has dared to ask us a question we have sent you info you can easily find at the beginning of our jargon laden website that we hide behind. Not only that but we refuse to pay someone to actually read your complaint because we don't want to lower our huge profit margin so we have responded with a cheap automatic service and will pretend we have replied quickly because we are acting in good faith. 

So we now know their complaint system will be ignored and is absolutely useless. 

I will try contacting them through their phone line today and give you guys the feedback tomorrow on how that goes. But who wants to bet me its all automated and I don't actually get to even speak to a human.