Utterly scammed by Paypal and buyer

[Kenster]

So i sold an exhaust on ebay (a stainless one) over 3 weeks later the buyer complains it doesn't fit their car. They refuse to divulge what car they have or give any detail file a refund request via ebay, i decline it after contacting them to explain it will fit the car specified.

They then file the same with Paypal, i contacted the manufacturer who confirmed my exhaust fits the model of car i specified from 2009-2012, i demonstrated a hystorical trail showing i purchased from same supplier on ebay and almost identical photos to the current selling model from the same supplier, demonstrating it is the same exhaust i purchased and was fitted fine on my car. 

The same ebay buyer via paypal now changes tune from 'it doesn't fit' to 'its damaged it isnt what i ordered and its rusty'' lets be clear here its stainless steel, it cant rust.  I am 101% adamant this fits their car, ive checked with the forums and Audi direct and the exhaust supplier, all are also behind me in agreeing this should fit their car. They either changed their mind or do not have a competent fitter or have the wrong car. None of these mean they are eligible for my money being taken off me.

Paypal instantly granted them a full refund, without investigating anything. It seems plain and simple here their buyer protection program is nothing to do with covering the costs when things go wrong, they just take the money off the seller no matter what. 

Utterly wrong and this needs changing. I will not stop till this is changed. Its morally wrong. 

I mailed Paypal yesterday yesterday and they told me i can appeal this decision, i have no option to appeal as far as i can see in the resolution center. Apparently its being posted back to me as we speak. This is FUBAR.

[kernowlass]

@Kenster

In the event of an item received but not as described dispute it is always one persons word against another.

Paypal never sees the actual item so they tend to find for the buyer BUT the buyer has to return the item back to you at their own expense before you have to refund.

If you sell online you are always going to get the odd transaction go wrong in your opinon........it happens.

Its not fair that physical stores get ripped off by shoplifters but it happens, thats the risk of selling.

[Kenster]

Disagree

A) This was marked as no returns. Remove the option in Ebay if it means nothing

B) This went to a resolution center, why offer the option to present a case plus irrefutable evidence then just 'side with the buyer anyway'

C) Conditions of returns include item not is not as described when the item has been exactly described and matches the photo the same brand new item on ebay. 

D) Buyer claims the item is damaged and rusty. Again no evidence uploaded to prove this. 

E) Paypal are keen to ensure buyers have confidence to buy knowing all they need to do is click their fingers no matter what, their money comes back, gives them more confidence to part with it in the first place, not rocket science. The downside the insurance pot is the sellers time and money not Paypals.

Shoplifters are prosecuted and are not allowed to leave with stealing from someone else, sh't happens but they pay for it. 

Ive spent alot of time researching and collating evidence to prove i am completely 100% correct here. Why should i be out of time and money and be accused of mis selling a product. Dont forget this goes on my records as a mark i misold a product, when i didnt. 

Take your ebay blinkers off. 

[kernowlass]

@Kenster

A. Your returns policy is redundant against paypals dispute policy as you agreed to that when you opened your paypal account.

B. Because if it was a dispute for an item eg motor vehicles that did not come under buyer protection it would be closed straightaway.

C. That is your opinion only, as I said what you 'said' you sent and what the buyer 'said' they received is one persons word against anothers.

D. Evidence is pointless in this scenario as they could upload a completely different piccy of another item so why ask for it?

E. I agree, in this scenario the buyer wins. As I said sometimes as a seller you lose out. But personally the money I have earned by using paypal far outweighs the odd transaction that goes awry.

Shoplifters are prosecuted and are not allowed to leave with stealing from someone else, sh't happens but they pay for it. 

You think? Most are never caught.

Take your ebay blinkers off. 

I sell on my own website and not just Ebay.

I've spent alot of time researching and collating evidence to prove i am completely 100% correct here. Why should i be out of time and money and be accused of mis selling a product.

Because you are a seller and not all selling transactions go well. Personally I would rather put up with the odd rogue buyer and the rest of my buyers feel protected than the other way around.

[Kenster]

oh my just goes to show how blinkered you are or pro Paypal. 

Your response.. 

A. Your returns policy is redundant against paypals dispute policy as you agreed to that when you opened your paypal account. - Any normal person would object to being offered a box to select no returns when in reality it, means nothing, because the small print has actually has nulified this option, what else have we agreed to like agreeing to sign your life posession over if the disputing buyer says so. How **bleep**ed up is that really? Whilst you are more than happy to be shafted. 

B. Because if it was a dispute for an item eg motor vehicles that did not come under buyer protection it would be closed straightaway. - Again no warning to either party, but that's ok read the small print.. better still just goto Paypal and make up stories you're a buyer you're safe its not Paypal losing you you're ok.

C. That is your opinion only, as I said what you 'said' you sent and what the buyer 'said' they received is one persons word against anothers. - You're not getting it are you? Or are you implying the resolution center is nothing more than an attempt to make the seller feel like they have some representation? I wonder who vets these or is it just a timed process which flicks to refund after x period. 

I managed to demonstrate a reliable trail of purchase along with photos supporting my product and backup from the manufacturer. The buyer didn't supply a single grain of evidence proving it doesnt fit is faulty or rusty (again i reiterate it's stainless steel it can't rust!) . 

But again like you say its all 'hot air' just paying lip service here. 

D. Evidence is pointless in this scenario as they could upload a completely different piccy of another item so why ask for it? - See C you either dont understand appeal or 'arbitration' (which i use in the loosest terms here because Paypal is obviously biased to keep buyer confidence) or again you know something we dont and the Resolution Center is bs. 

im getting bored... my point about Shoplifters is they arent given the benefit of the doubt. Whilst this buyer isn't stealing, i have no idea what they are returning to me, Paypal i know wont give a **bleep**, because its not the same part theyll just say 'your word against theirs' not funny when the part is over 300 pounds. Theyve wasted my time and efforts and potential other buyers who offered me good money.  Its not a one off, my last sale was a broken laptop the buyer messaged him saying its so broken it's not profitable!! I offered him half his money back which he promptly took, as i knew all he needed to do was hit the refund button and i'd be **bleep**.

I raised this on a car forum earlier, and it's interesting about 10 people piped up 9 of them all said the same, dont sell on Ebay or use Paypal as there are so many scammers now and you will always lose out, you would of been the minority in your opinion. Some have setup their own websites (as you have) and are trading direct. Its the way forward because that collective 15% fee you pay each time, none of that is invested into protecting the seller.  There's an uprising called 'people power' which will hopefully put an end to coorporations like this who just take peoples money without any proper investigation as it would affect their profits. 

[kernowlass]

@Kenster

I can only give you the facts but unfortunately not the intelligence to understand those facts.

Go sell elsewhere if you want to, doesn't bother me but unfortunately most buyers want sellers that offer paypal so that the get paypal buyer protection.

And as i said i would rather have the odd bad sale and still make a profit rather than sell not using paypal, get no bad transactions but make little profit.

And if you don't like paypal then close your account, not rocket science really.

[Kenster]

You gave details through Paypal rose tinted specs, as i said above do you really think its fair to select 'no returns' without being warned this is null and void. Or are you void of a life and spend all your time digesting Térms and conditions until you can recite verbatim.

Anyway yes bored.. to conclude or insinuate just because i dont agree with you im lacking intelligence then it just shows how naive you are. 

Have a nice day. 

[kernowlass]

@Kenster

do you really think its fair to select 'no returns' without being warned this is null and void.

Its not null and void if it was a case of buyer remorse. It 'is' null and void if there is something wrong with the item or the buyer feels it was misdescribed.

Or are you void of a life and spend all your time digesting Térms and conditions until you can recite verbatim.

Nope, you asked the question. I responded and gave my opinion OR did you just want folks replying that agreed with you?

And personally I read up on the 'short' section about seller protection before I started to sell, thats common sense and not 'digesting terms and conditions' as you so succinctly put it.

I have had pain in the butt buyers in the past and I have had to refund when I did not feel it was warranted. Did i rant about paypal? No. The reason? I expect to have problems with the occasional sale, nothing is ever going to go 100% smoothly. So I risk assess my transactions and just hope most go ok which they do.

[Kenster]

Again you are avoiding the truth here.. noone in their right mind sends the item back indicating 'buyers remorse' as of course that is not in accordance with 13.8 a (SNAD) of the terms and conditions, and yes section b refers to conditions not accepted ie remorse, which im sure you know. 

Look back at your original response "Your returns policy is redundant against paypals dispute policy as you agreed to that when you opened your paypal account." - Again as i said before i wasn't aware of this and ebay/paypal doesn't make you aware and still stand by there is no point offering no returns as it has absolutely zero effect as unless you are utter devoid of intelligence, every single buyer looks up returns policy and the first suggestion says 'you can return if you feel the item is not as described' - Feel, thats all they need to Feel and click of the fingers nothing else matters. 

Paypal terms also state they are not responsible for selling charges from 3rd parties.. another one i now have to persure as ive already been billed from ebay 70pounds for selling this item.. but hey, its a bad buyer suck it up dont **bleep** the buyers off because it will affect Paypals churn.

Interestingly i googled buyers remorse on paypal similar issue to me, other paypal users sharing same **bleep** off views, but a volunteer advisor offered the same twisted analagy as you 

''add a percentage into your price to pay for the buyers that give you grief." - FFS how about Paypal take some of the profit and enhance their resolution center to actually check when a buyer fraudulently abusing the system they are penalised for it. Just saying hey just take the charges and time on the chin and move on, isn't acceptable, you can't prove either is right isn't acceptable that's a cop out.  But that's the difference between you and me, i dont roll over and take it up the Gary for a few more pennies i believe in a fair system for all thanks.

And good for you not ranting to Paypal, but they happily take money off me for their services and their advertised 'protection' and resolution center. Which is what i believed im paying for right? I see now why alot of people advertise 'no paypal payments accepted' as it seems to be an increasing issue Paypal offer no seller protection just as you and another have highlighted here. Paypal has every interest in keeping buyers happy or they will cease to exist. 

[kernowlass]

@Kenster

Paypal offers 'some' buyer and 'some' seller protection, the rest is up to you to risk assess your own transactions.

As I said if you are selling 'online' you are always going to get the odd bad transaction but personally I just deal with it and get on with more selling.

I don't spend days on here moaning about it.