Photographic Evidence for Claims

[canarycream]

Hi,

I recently sold an item via ebay but the buyer filed a claim disputing that the item was not as described. However, I have photographic evidence that show the buyer is clearly in the wrong regarding this. When I am asked to respond to the claim, I am limited to a 2000 character text response and nowhere does it offer me to chance to upload my photographic evidence. When I searched through the FAQ, the instructions tell me to goto the action section of the Resolution Center and click Resolve. However, such a place does not exist....when I click resolution center, the only option I have is to view the claim details. How do you upload photographic evidence to support your response to a claim? It would be really unfair if the buyer wins this claim simply becuase Paypal does not allow me to submt evidence in my favor.

Thanks for all your help

[surplusdealdude]

That's because the dispute isn't on paypal anymore, it's on ebay - they've been handling ebay diputes for about a year now.

Go here;

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ResolutionCenter&cf=20

and you should be  able to respond.

[canarycream]

Hey, THanks for the reply...unfortunately when I goto ebay's resolution center, it tells me:

You can view the latest details of your claim and take any required actions by accessing your PayPal account.

Here's how:

1. Click Continue to PayPal to proceed to the PayPal website.

2. Log in to your PayPal account. Afterwards, you'll be taken to the Resolution Center.

3. View details about your claim and proceed with any necessary actions.

and directs me back to the same PayPal resolution center.

I have given Paypal a call but they said they cannot photographic evidence even though their claim detail page lists a supporting documents page.

This seems to make no sense because a buyer can claim any sort of bogus damage after receiving an item and there's no way for the seller to show pre-shipping pictures to prove it. The paypal guy on the phone says the photos part of the ebay listing will be reviewed by paypal for the claim...however, theres no way you can cover every single part of an item with just the 20 photos ebay limits you to.

What keeps the buyer from just picking a bogus part not seen in the pictures and claiming a defect in the area? Especially in my case since the problem areas that the buyer claims are only a few square centimeters on an item that has an surface area of approximately 1000 square centimeters (that's 100 photos to cover the whole item!)

[surplusdealdude]

I wish these guys would make up their mind who's handling the claim.

They do have a point with the photos, though - there's no evidence that they're the photos of the item that the buyer has now.  That reduces the argument to a 'he said/he said' level, and you're always going to lose those.

Sorry, I don't know what to suggest.

[usps-scam]

I've been told by paypal superadvisers that basically you need to read the paypal policy and follow the rules there because ignorance is not an excuse.  Don't be willfully ignorant, go read that policy top to bottom and know it inside and out ok?  Thats going to be your holy grail in the future. If you were to simply follow the rules, you wouldn't have these kinds of problems with paypal and ebay. Its really your fault for not following the rules.

But Yeah paypal is rather limited in its ability to help sellers in this kind of situation.  So you have to be willing to do the work and not be lazy about things. You probably won't like this comment but if you take responsibility and do the work to be successful. If you are not lazy about it and take ownership of your responsibility in this matter, then you will succeed.  Basically the point is you can't rely on paypal and ebay to support you as a merchant using their services. You're on your own essentially.  There really isn't much of a seller protection policy because that would put them at risk of losing profit and money from fraud. They'd rather leave that risk and liability with sellers like us.

Some things you can try to resolve( or avoid) your situation:

1. Ask for photos of the item and packaging from the buyers showing the damage & mishandling during shipping 
2. File a shipping damage insurance claim if necessary and offer money back to the buyer if the claim is successful
3. Offer to exchange the buyer and have them pay return shipping and you send them another good item.
4. Mark items in an obvious fashion before shipping so you can identify them when they are returned for exchange (this helps to discourage switch and return fraud) (they sell warranty void stickers on ebay
5. Ask the buyer if they'd be satisfied with a partial refund and keeping the merchandise as is
6. Cancel the transaction through ebay(get FVF fees back) , then have them return it and, give them a refund. Then relist and resell and be sure to mention any blemishes in your auction description

Best of luck

Dave

[canarycream]

Thanks for your reply.

i have read the Paypal policy page thoroughly and based on its contents and what i have learned from this first claim of mine:

You are essentially taking a huge risk every time you sell something and have the person pay through Paypal. It requires a leap of faith to feel safe selling on this. Now I understand the risk and I guess I'm accepting it, but given the full risk, I'm surprised that anyone sells anything of value on Ebay via Paypal payment. I feel like there should be some simple ways to make it safer for sellers and avoid fraud at the same time, or there should be more information in places available to sellers/buyers other than the policy agreement. I understand that the final word is the policy agreement but don't you think that the website should have accurate information regarding its procedures elsewhere as well? The policy agreement is full of legal jargon and I believe there should be simpler versions for the average seller/buyer. I mean, I'm assuming that you haven't read the entire user agreement for your email account or read through the entire user agreement for every software you install because there are simpler versions with accurate information elsewhere.

It seems that every one of your procedures is simply giving in by offering a refund or returning the item.

Thanks for the advice anyways...

P.S.

It seems that one way to improve the claim system is to consider past claims records in the decision. Otherwise, a buyer could dispute every single item they buy hoping to get some sort of refund. Another way is to allow the seller to upload photos of pre-ship conditions prior to shipping out. I know that Paypal argues that there is no way to authenticate the photos taken are of the items being shipped and that's why they use ebay listing as evidence. However, there is no way to authenticate that the ebay pictures are of the item being shipped either. A classic bait and switch can fraud both systems, but having more photos will definitely help and not hurt.

There is no way to completely eliminate fraud from the system, but every case being decided correctly helps the reputation of Paypal.

[surplusdealdude]

---

@canarycream wrote:

Thanks for your reply.

i have read the Paypal policy page thoroughly and based on its contents and what i have learned from this first claim of mine:

You are essentially taking a huge risk every time you sell something and have the person pay through Paypal. It requires a leap of faith to feel safe selling on this. Now I understand the risk and I guess I'm accepting it, but given the full risk, I'm surprised that anyone sells anything of value on Ebay via Paypal payment. I feel like there should be some simple ways to make it safer for sellers and avoid fraud at the same time, or there should be more information in places available to sellers/buyers other than the policy agreement. I understand that the final word is the policy agreement but don't you think that the website should have accurate information regarding its procedures elsewhere as well? The policy agreement is full of legal jargon and I believe there should be simpler versions for the average seller/buyer. I mean, I'm assuming that you haven't read the entire user agreement for your email account or read through the entire user agreement for every software you install because there are simpler versions with accurate information elsewhere.

It seems that every one of your procedures is simply giving in by offering a refund or returning the item.

Thanks for the advice anyways...

P.S.

It seems that one way to improve the claim system is to consider past claims records in the decision. Otherwise, a buyer could dispute every single item they buy hoping to get some sort of refund. Another way is to allow the seller to upload photos of pre-ship conditions prior to shipping out. I know that Paypal argues that there is no way to authenticate the photos taken are of the items being shipped and that's why they use ebay listing as evidence. However, there is no way to authenticate that the ebay pictures are of the item being shipped either. A classic bait and switch can fraud both systems, but having more photos will definitely help and not hurt.

There is no way to completely eliminate fraud from the system, but every case being decided correctly helps the reputation of Paypal.

---

I agree with part of what you say - I would NEVER use Paypal for anything over $3,000.  Too risky.

ebay IS considering past performance of the buyer and seller in its dispute process - haven't seen any evidence of that, but they've only been doing it a year and, of course, we don't have full information on their decisions.

With Paypal, the problem is that it's a contract - paypal has to follow the terms of the contract.  If the seller follows the rules, they win.  If not, they lose.

Far too many sellers are ignoring the contract terms in favour of "making it up as they go along" and then they don't understand why paypal will not make an exception for them.

Paypal makes exceptions for nobody.

[sooge]

Hi,

You can use "Print Screen" button on your keyboard, edit a little using paint, save it in your hardisk, upload it in a picture hosting website (e.g. photobucket, imageshack, etc) where you'll get a link, then go to hxxp://bit.ly and shorten your link.

Best practice is download the free version of Jing from hxxp://jingproject.com and take the screenshot of your picture, share it using screencast (include in Jing), and shorten the link using bit.ly. Jing will store your file on their hosting. 

Hope this can help you a little.

Regards