NEW SCAM - HOW TO WIN EVERY EBAY AUCTION FOR FREE - No I'm not kidding

[gearsmithy]

Some of you may have read about the SNAD-Chargeback scam that is plaguing the seller community.  Well, PayPal is doing nothing about it so I'm taking this opportunity to educate as many people I can about how to perform this scam so you can protect yourself (but you can't, you'll see why).

HERE'S HOW THE SCAM WORKS, find a buyer and win an auction, pay with your credit card via paypal.  When you get the merchandise initiate a SNAD (significantly not as described) paypal dispute and a chargeback through your CC company.  You may win or lose the paypal dispute, but it doesn't matter, the CC company will still process the chargeback and since you initiated the dispute as SNAD the seller is not covered by PayPal's "Seller Protection Policy."  Voila, now you've got the merchandise AND the money. 

You see folks, PAYPAL AND THE CC COMPANIES RELY UPON THE BUYER TO DETERMINE THE TYPE OF DISPUTE.  So sellers have zero chance of winning in the end because PayPal's Seller Protection Policy does not cover SNAD claims or chargebacks, and the BUYER gets to classify the dispute.  Essentially, THE BUYER GETS TO DETERMINE WHO PAYS FOR THE MERCHANDISE.

This happened to me. I sold a phone on ebay, buyer initiated a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim against me in paypal (he claimed that the phone was stolen by UPS and even sent photos of a damaged box without phone inside).  I won the Paypal dispute by providing 45 pages of emails, numerous photographs proving that the item was shipped as described through UPS and confirmed delivery to the a confirmed address.  But I lost the chargeback why?? Because the BUYER calls the shots in this game.   Even though paypal's web page states the following:

"Chargeback coverage with PayPal Dispute Resolution.
If you resolve a dispute through the Resolution Center, Paypal will protect you 100% against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer may file for that transaction."

You can read this here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/securitycenter/sell/ChargebackGuide3-outside

That looks like flat-out false advertising to me, and this whole double jeopardy system is clearly unethical.  So feel free to abuse the system all you want, Paypal doesn't care, ebay doesn't care, the CC companies...they sure as heck don't care. 

[jimmyzshack]

Let me add some "drama"  that apply's to some sellers. My company sells live fish and coral. here is the short story.

This scam doesn't even require a charge back.

this isn't a auction but through our website, but transactions are treated like auctions sence nov 1.

buyer bought a fish. shipped fish. 2 days later buyer claims? that the fish is dead. Our policy and everyone else that sells fish require a picture of the dead fish for refund. buyer files a SNAD paypal refunds with no proof what so ever that the fish died. They keep telling me to look at the "legal agreement" i keep asking where in there is the policy on live animals. they tell me they can't require the buyer to ship the fish back (never asked for a fish to be mailed back) lol. I'm not letting this go though i'll get my companies money back or i'll waste enough of there time and resource till it cost them just as much.

6 answer all telling me they can't mail a fish back that i never asked in the first place.

[gearsmithy]

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@profdata wrote:

How is it DJ if the buyer would have one the 1st claim, and then filed with their cc, paypal can oly take the funds from you ONCE. 

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That's the point, you just said the very definition of DJ.  The whole point of DJ is to keep paypal from taking money from me twice. 

I will call them again tonight but I serriously doubt that any supervisor there cares.

[profdata]

Paypals head boss Colin said sellers would be covered under DJ if a buyer looses a claim and then files a chargeback.

[gearsmithy]

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@profdata wrote:

Paypals head boss Colin said sellers would be covered under DJ if a buyer looses a claim and then files a chargeback.

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you got that in writing anywhere?  I was told by Paypal that my only recourse at this point is legal, and that i would have to subpeona records.  That will cost far more than the price of the item (which wasn't cheap eather).

[profdata]

DJ means you can not be charged/found gulty of the same charge/offense.

You were found not guilty 1st, then the 2nd time guilty for the same claim

[gearsmithy]

Yes you are correct, in the legal sense.  This was the response from Paypal's support line:

"Our DJ policy doesn't work the same way as the legal version of double jeopardy does.  It only covers you if [the buyer] had won and did a chargeback, or if you had refunded the the payment [to the buyer]".

Of course this is trivial compared to the blatent case of false advertising on this site.

[gearsmithy]

By the way profdata, I don't know who you are but you are probably the only person at paypal right now that cares about this issue.