PayPal Community

Hi Colin,   I just wanted to make sure that somebody at PayPal looks into this loophole.  It's been 9 days since sent this email to the office of executive escalations and I have exhausted my available time trying to help you guys and this will be my final attempt to do so.   In a nutshell, my concern is that your website clearly states   "If you resolve a dispute through the Resolution Center, Paypal will protect you 100% against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer may file for that transaction"  (you can see this here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/securitycenter/sell/ChargebackGuide3-outside   I have been told repeatedly that this is not true, yet the advertisment remains.  My concern also spans into the application of your double jeopary policy as well as a conflict of interest in your dispute resolution process insofar as the buyer chooses the type of disput (e.g. SNAD, INR, etc) and therefore determines wether the seller is covered by your protection policies.   The way your current process is designed a fraudster can scam any seller they want by doing the following:   1.  Win an auction, pay with a  credit card via paypal.  2.  When the merchandise comes in initiate a SNAD (significantly not as described) paypal dispute and a chargeback through your CC company.  The fraudster may win or lose the paypal dispute, but it doesn't matter, the CC company will still process the chargeback and since the fraudster initiated the dispute as SNAD the seller is not covered by PayPal's "Seller Protection Policy."  3.  If the CC company requires proof of return shipping, ship the seller an empty box and forward on the proof.  The CC company will accept this as indisputable proof of a good faith effort to return the goods (even though the fraudster clearly stole them). 4.   Now they’ve got the merchandise and the money.   I have spoken to numerous people at Paypal (reps, supervisors, escalations, etc) about this, and every one admitted that:   a)  This enables chargeback fraud; and b)  Paypal is falsely advertising protections against it.    Feel free to pull my call logs over the past month, I think you'll be surprised to hear what your own people have to say about this. ... View more

Well it's been 9 days since I responded to an email I recieved from "the office of executive escalations."  No reponse, not even a confirmation message.  I think it's safe to say that paypal clearly doesn't give a lick about this issue. ... View more

I got a response from the "Office of Executive Escalations" .... "executive escalations?"  are you kidding me? I couldn't think of a more patronizing thing to call this "office" it's down right insulting, see for yourself   ---------------------------------------   Dear Mr. [gearsmithy], My name is April and I work for the office of Executive Escalations. Thank you for your inquiry. Your concerns were recently forwarded to our office for review in the hope that we might be able to assist you further.   I'm so sorry for the difficulties you have been experiencing in regards to your PayPal account. In reviewing your Account, I see that you recently contacted us in regards to the following Chargeback:   Buyer's Name:[redacted] Buyer's Email:[redacted] Transaction Date:Jan 15, 2010 Transaction Amount:[redacted] Case #:PP-000-958-434-363 Your Transaction ID: 59V01029SC9011603   I'm very sorry for the frustration this issue has caused you. PayPal's Seller Protection can protect sellers of tangible items from reversal liability resulting from a Buyer's unauthorized use of a credit card or false claims of non-shipment of goods.  A review of the disputes filed by the Buyer's credit card company shows that the reversals were initiated for quality issues, disqualifying you for PayPal's Seller Protection.  The decision to dispute the charge was made solely by the Buyer’s credit card issuer.  As such, please understand that PayPal does not control the outcome of any dispute decision initiated through a credit card issuing bank.   I understand that the buyer previously filed a Claim with PayPal in regards to this transaction, and the Claim was found in your favor. However, because the Claim was initiated for quality issues, PayPal's Seller Protection did not apply.   Mr. [gearsmithy], I understand you are frustrated regarding this situation. I see from the tracking information you provided that UPS was investigating your damage claim as of February 19, 2010. I recommend that you continuing working with UPS to resolve the issue.   Again, I sincerely apologize for the difficulties you have encountered while using PayPal.  **personal information removed** Sincerely, April Executive Escalations PayPal, an eBay Company ... View more

Ok so, what are my options?  Call the hotline again, not a chance.  every time I call them I get the same response, and it takes me a half hour just to find somebody who knows what they're talking about.  The 888 number is useless, and you're telling me this Amanda person can help if I email her? ... View more

I just got off the phone with a supervisor in the dispute/chargeback area.  He said the same thing that everyone said "DJ doesn't apply to my situation".     I think at this point, I'm done trying to work with paypal. For some reason nobody seems to care that THE BUYER CHOSES WHETHER THE SELLER IS COVERED BY PAYPAL'S SELLER PROTECTION POLICY.     ... View more

@profdata wrote: E-mail AMANDA@PAYPAL she has helped others in the past Amanda's track record for helping victims of chargeback fraud is not impressive.  Just search for "chargeback amanda" and you'll see what i mean. ... View more

By the way profdata, I don't know who you are but you are probably the only person at paypal right now that cares about this issue. ... View more

Yes you are correct, in the legal sense.  This was the response from Paypal's support line:   "Our DJ policy doesn't work the same way as the legal version of double jeopardy does.  It only covers you if [the buyer] had won and did a chargeback, or if you had refunded the the payment [to the buyer]".   Of course this is trivial compared to the blatent case of false advertising on this site. ... View more

Or I could email fox news, I'm sure they'd love to hear about this GAPING EBAY/PAYPAL HOLE that fraudsters are actively exploiting to steal merchandise from the little guy. ... View more

@profdata wrote: Paypals head boss Colin said sellers would be covered under DJ if a buyer looses a claim and then files a chargeback. you got that in writing anywhere?  I was told by Paypal that my only recourse at this point is legal, and that i would have to subpeona records.  That will cost far more than the price of the item (which wasn't cheap eather). ... View more