Negative Balance, $40 return item charge, and $5 non-sufficent funds fee from where?

[AlphaEtOmega]

I usually make online purchases using paypal directly withdrawing money from my bank account for the past 4+ years now, however it seems there wasn't enough funds deposited into my bank account this time around (not knowing).

So when using paypal to make the payment (not knowing my balance), I got an error, rejecting it giving me a try a different browser clearing cookies generic message.
So I would try again. Repeat this 3 times, still the same result.
Frustrated I would go to the bank and check out what's wrong.

So I go to the bank they print out my bank statement.
I am in the negative $182.
For some reason paypal is charging me the item cost of $80, plus $40 of an returned item charge, plus an additional $5 for non-sufficient funds fee (bank I think). This happened 3 times or more as I mentioned.
So I deposit some cheques at a teller, which should be instant as its in my bank account this time around.
Sign a deposit record and leave.

Go home, make a payment again for the same item, but STILL same error.
Go on paypal website directly this time, now im in the negative $280.

Im technically paying for the item, paying for a return item charge and an additional non-sufficient funds fee but am not actually getting the product.

I don't know if this is a bank thing, paypal thing, or the website, but im very confused and frustrated at the moment.
And going back to the same bank branch just at a different location encase the teller made a mistake.

If anyone can help please let me know.

Im feeling sick from all of this.

Why am I being charged $40 for 'returned item charge'  and who is charging it? Paypal, the website I ordered from or my bank?

Same with the non-sufficent funds fee.

Why if you have a negative balance, when making a payment that paypal not tell you but rather give you an error has occurred try again later, switch to another browser, clear cookies message instead.

Why does paypal(?) charge you multiple times and not send you a message through e-mail indicating this?

What if your account was hacked (not that it was but using it as an example) and used your paypal multiple times to purchase something wouldn't that negative charge just keep piling up?

If necessary I can provide and upload my bank statement of earlier today Mar 28th, that the teller printed off for me.

A reciept of my deposit of money into my bank account.

As well take a screen shot of my paypal account of the negative balance, after the deposit.

[DPCreations]

Bank check deposits are not always immediately available; check with your bank policies.

For immediate avaialability in your account, cash deposit is best.

PayPal will make repeated attempts for funds from your bank when needed, expecting funds to be there.  Your bank charges fees for attempts with withdraw funds when not avaialbe.  Check with your bank on setting up a provision to avoid that fee.  Some banks will waive or refund overdraft fees for their best custoemrs.

You need to discuss bank fees with your bank.

As for PayPal, suggest your review their policies on withdrawals.

In future maintain higher balances in both PayPal and your bank.

You could also call PayPal by phone and talk to a customer service specialist to discuss options for your oversight on funding.

[AlphaEtOmega]

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@DPCreations wrote:

Bank check deposits are not always immediately available; check with your bank policies.

For immediate avaialability in your account, cash deposit is best.

PayPal will make repeated attempts for funds from your bank when needed, expecting funds to be there.  Your bank charges fees for attempts with withdraw funds when not avaialbe.  Check with your bank on setting up a provision to avoid that fee.  Some banks will waive or refund overdraft fees for their best custoemrs.

You need to discuss bank fees with your bank.

As for PayPal, suggest your review their policies on withdrawals.

In future maintain higher balances in both PayPal and your bank.

You could also call PayPal by phone and talk to a customer service specialist to discuss options for your oversight on funding.

---

Hello, has this issue occurred before?

As do you know if it is the bank, paypal or the site I am buying from charging the $40.

As well do you know where I can read up on PayPals withdrawal policies as I was only able to find this:

https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

Definately not it.

I will phone paypal tomorrow to resolve it thanks.

 As well take precautions this is resolved and just add money to paypal via money transfer and wait the 5-7 business day delay.

[sandypurins]

@AlphaEtOmega

The $40.00 charges are coming from your bank. The $5.00 may be a PayPal charge. As DPCreations suggested, check PayPal's User Agreement for your country to see if there's a charge for a failed bank account funded payment.

Go here - https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mpp/ua/legalhub-full?locale.x=en_GB - to select and view your country's PayPal User Agreement.

When a PayPal transaction returns an error, you don't know at which point the transaction failed, and therefore it's important to check your PayPal account activity page before deciding whether to make another payment attempt.

-Sandy

[AlphaEtOmega]

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@sandypurins wrote:

@AlphaEtOmega

The $40.00 charges are coming from your bank. The $5.00 may be a PayPal charge. As DPCreations suggested, check PayPal's User Agreement for your country to see if there's a charge for a failed bank account funded payment.

Go here - https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mpp/ua/legalhub-full?locale.x=en_GB - to select and view your country's PayPal User Agreement.

When a PayPal transaction returns an error, you don't know at which point the transaction failed, and therefore it's important to check your PayPal account activity page before deciding whether to make another payment attempt.

-Sandy

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@sandypurins

Okay, thank you for your reply.

Are you sure the $40 fee is from the bank?

Edit: If it was a bank error why would paypal be asking to pay the negative balance?

Alternatively if there is money in my bank account would the negative balance automatically be gone since its 'from the bank'

Alternatively I am heading to the bank later today, would you have any suggestions or tips on how I would resolve this issue at the bank and explain it to them?

 Like should I keep forcing an issue of a refund?

Would I need proof from paypal's activity?

Anything to help prepare me when confronting the issue.

As the bank statement they printed for me (just information, rather then the monthly one they send through mail)  doesnt show much information on it. Which I do plan on bringing again.

Thanks again, any suggestions are appreciated.

I am currently reading up on:

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_CA#8

Or the link you sent me for my country of Canada I cant seem to find what i need to see if there is a charge on failed processes.

Closest thing I found was:

12.4 PayPal Processing Errors. We will rectify any processing error that we discover. If the error results in your receipt of less than the correct amount to which you are entitled, PayPal will credit your Account for the difference. If the error results in your receipt of more than the correct amount to which you are entitled, PayPal will debit the extra funds from your Account. If the error resulted in our not completing a transaction on time or in the correct amount, we will be liable for your losses or damages directly caused by this failure, unless: (a) through no fault of ours, you did not have enough available funds to complete the transaction, (b) our system was not working properly and you knew about the breakdown when you started the transaction, or (c) circumstances beyond our control (such as fire, flood or loss of Internet connection) prevented the transaction, despite our reasonable precautions.

But no definate cost amount on the $5 non sufficient funds charge.
 

Edit: Also found:

5.3 Negative Balances and Multiple Currencies. If your Account has a negative Balance, PayPal may setoff the negative Balance with any funds that you subsequently receive into your Account. If you have multiple currency Balances in your Account and one of the currency Balances becomes negative for any reason, PayPal may setoff the negative Balance by using funds you maintain in a different currency Balance, or by deducting amounts you owe PayPal from money you subsequently add or receive into your Account.

Which again I am confused about.

"If your Account has a negative Balance," assuming talking about paypal balance.

"PayPal may setoff the negative Balance with any funds that you subsequently receive into your Account." the Account at the end of the sentence means the paypal account as well? If so then again wouldnt it be a paypal issue instead of a bank issue?

EDIT:

I am checking my activity page from Feb 1st till today and downloaded and saved a copy of it. and there still seems like an error on it(?)

Am I able to upload it here and have someone have a look at it for me?

Not sure if there is information on there that shouldnt be seen or if I should consult paypal members as I am not sure what status a voluteer advisor is.

EDIT:

While I do realize I can just pay for the $280 worth of fees, I havent gotten any products as they again from my 1st post were all rejected.

And all product charge + returned item charge + nonsufficent funds charge so I feel that I should not have to pay for at least the product charge,

Retuned item charge and nonsufficent funds charge I would understand if I can find where on the paypal website or my bank that claims this.

[sandypurins]

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AlphaEtOmega wrote:

Am I able to upload it here and have someone have a look at it for me?

Not sure if there is information on there that shouldnt be seen or if I should consult paypal members as I am not sure what status a voluteer advisor is.

---

@AlphaEtOmega

You should remove all personal information before posting your account activity here.

Volunteer advisors are people who have experience with providing helpful information... I believe it's based on post count, kudos count and solutions count.

-Sandy

[sandypurins]

@AlphaEtOmega

Log in to your PayPal account, click on the "Classic Site" link (bottom of page) and then click on the "All activity (with balance)" option. This will show your running PayPal account balance (in the right hand column) after each transaction and should make it easier for you to see how you arrived at your current PayPal account balance.

Change the date range to cover whatever period is appropriate. Be sure you have the correct date range entered... this may take two tries because sometimes the selected date range reverts back to the previous setting. You can view all activity since you opened your PayPal account.

-Sandy

[AlphaEtOmega]

@sandypurins

Alright thanks, im looking at it now.

And will see if the total adds up in the next few minutes.

 EDIT:

Okay the numbers seems to add up.

Net Amount             Balance

-$80.67                    -80.67

-$123.25                  -203.92

$14.73                     -268.51

and                          and finally

$64.59.                    -283.24

What I dont understand then is a couple of things then.

1) I thought I was charged $40 EACH TIME there was a return item charge and a Non Sufficient Fee.

After looking at the paypal account, I guess this was the banks doing then and they were the guilty one's.

And paypal has nothing to do with it really.

As im looking at the bank account statement and I have to pay and ADDITIONAL 182.67++ from March 28th due to the returned item charge, non sufficient funds fee and the original external withdrawal cost.

Is there a way I can explain it to the bank what happened?

2) What is the position called that I can ask at the bank to help me with this, rather then the teller.

As I mentioned I am being charged multiple instances of the same item, even though it was not processed and the item was rejected. I will post a log very shortly of it like how I did it above. May someone help me with that or is it non-paypal related and cannot offer advice for it?

Alternatively I went to the bank again today the 30th and previously on the 28th, should have money in my account as I deposited cash this time instead of pay cheques.

3a) Why is my paypal balance still negative when I have money in my bank account, if my paypal is directly linked and withdraws money from my account automatically when making payments?

3b) Is it because I am not making a payment to a 'seller' directly?

3c) Why is my bank still charging me if I pay paypal instead?

3d) Wouldn't it make more sense if Paypal was at 0 and access restricted rather then having to pay them for what? If my bank is charging me as well? I am confused still.

Please help me with this one, thank you very much for your time.

[sandypurins]

@AlphaEtOmega

Many banks charge an insufficient funds fee ($30-45.00) when you have a transaction which exceeds your available balance. You can try to explain to your bank that you didn't understand how it all works, and ask if they can remove some of the fees. Ask to speak to an accounts manager.

It sounds like PayPal has completed all of your payments and sent them off to your sellers, and that is why your PayPal account balance is negative. PayPal was expecting to be reimbursed for these payments when the funds arrived from your bank account, but since your bank has not completed the transfers due to insufficient funds in your bank account, your PayPal balance remains negative.

You need to use the PayPal "Add money" link on your PayPal Summary page to transfer money from your bank account to your PayPal account so that you can reconcile your negative PayPal balance. Make sure you have sufficient available funds in your bank account before starting the "Add money" process.

If any of your sellers were paid twice, ask the sellers to refund the duplicate payments.

-Sandy

[AlphaEtOmega]

@sandypurins

Okay thanks again.

I was able to almost resolve everything.

As from yesterday(?) I was able to obtain alot of information on where the charges are coming from, etc.

Which solved one problem I had.

As well, I was able to speak with a representive over the phone with my bank just a few minutes ago maybe 8-12 and they were able to refund me $100 from my $240 worth of errors but at least its better than nothing.

This solved another issue as mentioned last post.

"You need to use the PayPal "Add money" link on your PayPal Summary page to transfer money from your bank account to your PayPal account so that you can reconcile your negative PayPal balance. Make sure you have sufficient available funds in your bank account before starting the "Add money" process."

Yes, while on the phone I asked if there were any further issues with my bank account and they mentioned it was fine.

That was great to hear and while I was STILL on the phone with them I told them I wanted to make a payment online to pay off my negative balance on paypal, and make sure nothing suspicious occurred on their end.

So as you mentioned, I did verify there was money in my account with them, and went to add money to transfer to paypal from my bank account.

However still got an error of:

>>>>>>> Please wait while we process your request. This may take a few minutes. <<<<<<<<<<

Your current PayPal balance: -$283.24 CAD

Accounts with sustained negative balances may restrict your ability to use your PayPal account.

Resolving your negative balance will enable you to continue to use your PayPal account uninterrupted.

Resolve your balance by adding funds to your PayPal account:
- Add funds using your debit or credit card (Instantly)
- Add funds using your bank account (6-8 business days)
- Add funds by mailing a check to PayPal (7 business days after the check is received)

BUT nothing happened, I didnt go to a next screen, etc.

It just reset the option circle I selected to the default top one of Add funds using your debit or credit card (Instantly) from my selected Add funds using your bank account (6-8 business days)

Any suggestions on what to try for this part?

Should I just try again later which is my default plan? try a different browser (browser issue)? 'wait' if its on the bank end and needs to process 6-8 days (even though on paypal the screen didnt indicate if it went through or not)? or is this a paypal issue? call paypal and hope not for a busy line after navigating to the proper department in English for 5 minutes?

Anyways I told them I would be trying again later tonight and making the paypal payment, and phoning them after work today, and see what happens.

Please let me know what you think, what might be the issue or I should try.

Thanks again for all your advice!