Reversing money sent to Russians that's frozen (not payments, friends transfer)

[mpoloukhine]

I sent money to a friend in Russia right before PayPal locked all their accounts down.

He can't get the money and I don't have it to give it to him any other way. PayPal has essentially stolen $2k from us for nothing either of us did wrong.

How to I reverse the transaction so I can get the money to the guy some other way?

[kernowlass]

@mpoloukhine 

What does it say next to the transaction in your paypal account?

[mpoloukhine]

@kernowlass

Could you be more specific about what you are looking for "next to" the transaction? There's nothing "next to" it.

[kernowlass]

@mpoloukhine 

theres always something next to it....

payment

sent

unclaimed/cancel

unclaimed

pending

pending/unclaimed

uncleared

awaiting authorisation ???

[mpoloukhine]

@kernowlass
Ok, it's under it, not next to it: "money sent"

[kernowlass]

@mpoloukhine 

That's a shame then as it means the funds have successfully transferred to the recipients account and as you sent it using the friends/family option you do not have any buyer protection and so can't raise a dispute.

The recipient would have been able to withdraw those funds but as paypal have suspended all Russian paypal accounts then sadly your mate may have to wait until the war is over OR anything changes and the ban lifted before accessing those funds.

[mpoloukhine]

@kernowlass 

Again: I'm not looking for buyer protection. I'm looking for *user* protection.

I am asking if there is a specific process by which since PayPal is not allowing a user (for no fault of his) to access the funds I sent, that I can have them transferred back to my account where I *can* access the funds? I gather from your responses you're saying that's a "no"?

"The recipient would have been able to withdraw those funds but as paypal have suspended all Russian paypal accounts"
If they had been given advance warning of a pending suspension of all activity, that might be a legal leg for PayPal to stand on, but they did not. They did it with NO advance warning, with no user account policy allowing it and no fault on the part of the user.

I guess what I am specifically asking is two questions:
- Is there an established (pre- or even post-shut-down era) policy by which a user could rescind "money sent" while the receiver's account still had that amount at a minimum available in the balance? Yes or No. Sounds like you are a "No" (Kudos) Hoping others know of something you missed.

- Has PayPal issued any (or have users discovered any) legal self-protection PayPal established for their shut-down that can facilitate access to funds due to their own decision to lock accounts contrary to their own financial policy agreement with us? Not looking for opinions. Either actual PayPal policy legally issued, or then attorneys or those who have been/are working with any on this.

I don't want to have to hire an attorney to take 50% of my own money just to get it back from PayPal, but while IANAA, I'm pretty good at sussing out theft when I see it, so I figure other lawyers already have done so on this. Absent a simple established PayPal procedure, I am looking to get a user's response with some legal action they are taking, or better have successfully completed. Gotta think there's a class action suit already brewing.

[kernowlass]

@mpoloukhine 

No you can't get them back from a friends/family payment. 

No he can't access the funds in Russia, the idea of the ban is to stop as much money entering Russia as possible which is why sanctions have been imposed worldwide.

Don't think the rest of the world gave Russia any 'warning' before they imposed said sanctions including many worldwide companies.

HOWEVER Paypal announced the change in policy at least a week before to allow Russian account holders to withdraw their funds. So if your friend didn't OR if you sent the funds to late for that to happen then that's unfortunate. 

[mpoloukhine]

@kernowlass 
"No you can't get them back from a friends/family payment. "
That was all I needed, not a lecture on PayPal's virtue signaling.

"the idea of the ban is to stop as much money entering Russia"
I'm trying to get it OUT and they are not letting me. Nor are they letting HIM send it out.

"HOWEVER Paypal announced the change in policy at least a week before"
Not to my friend they didn't.

You work for PayPal or something? Why do you feel the need to justify or even explain their actions? I SPECIFICALLY asked for "no opinions" Why do you feel the need to opine? (Don't answer; it's rhetorical) PayPal's action are a breach of their agreement with their users here. The users have done NOTHING wrong to lose complete access to their funds. And blocking that access is doing NOTHING to further any sort of peaceful resolution to what is a geopolitical conflict. It's PURE virtue signaling at the expense of its own users. I hope they lose a TON of business over this. I for one will be holding ZERO funds with PayPal going forward seeing what they are getting away with here based on a whim.

So again:

NO OPINIONS PLEASE... if you know of any legal recourse that has been or is being used to allow locked Russian account holders to get their money out of PayPal, please post.

[kernowlass]

@mpoloukhine 

They announced the policy and stated it would commence in a weeks time, you sent anyway and were caught out.

Funds in or out, either way is good to stop Russian transactions at the moment.

I gave you no lecture, I rebutted your rubbish about paypal not giving any warning. That's why they stated this >>>

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-04/card/paypal-suspends-operatio....

  The exit will take some time as the company works to process customer withdrawals to ensure that account balances are dispersed in line with applicable laws and regulations, a PayPal spokesperson said.

I will give my opinion when, if and however many times I wish to do so, just like you have done.

And no I don't work for Paypal, but on this occasion I agree with what they are doing as does most of the world.