Funding My Venmo from My Paypal account.

[WiseWeevel]

I wanted to post this question for a couple of reasons:

1) To see if others are as frustrated as I am about this problem.

2) HOPEFULLY to add a voice that can and will be heard by PayPal concerning the way these two services are currently designed.

My good friend needed some money today. I logged into my Venmo account to send the money but realized that I was short and that I needed to add some money to my Venmo account so that I could send it to my friend.

At this point in the process, I actually was not aware that PayPal owned Venmo - I don't use either one all that often, so I just didn't know.

Also, I do not have a "traditional" bank account. Though in all reality, a PayPal account is a traditional bank account, having a legal checking account number and also being connected to a bank routing number that can be used for wire transfers. I assume these could not be possible unless the account was legally defined as a bank account just like any other bank account.

I tried to add my PayPal debit card to my Venmo account so that I could transfer some money from my PayPal account into my Venmo account. To my surprise, Venmo threw an error saying that I cannot add a VENMO debit card to a VENMO account.

This is when I realized that there is a connection between my PayPal account and my Venmo account and some quick googling taught me that PayPal owns both "services" (though technically they are both bank accounts since one cannot move money in this country by any other electronic means than through bank accounts).

After some more googling, I learned that currently, it is not possible to move funds from a PayPal account into a Venmo account, and that is true even if both accounts are yours.

My question is, WHY? 

I have seen some discussions on this issue where some people point out that the intent of the two services is not aligned such that there would be a need to provide that feature. And I suppose that if I'm standing in the shoes of a PayPal executive, I could probably understand that justification from that perspective (where service intent is the driver that dictates the decision). However, what I cannot rationalize, is where the benefit is provided to either PayPal or its customers in the decision to deny the ability to move money from PayPal to Venmo.

You can however move money from Venmo to PayPal.

Furthermore, it seems entirely true to say that if Venmo was not owned by PayPal, then it would be no problem at all to use a PayPal debit card to fund a Venmo account when Venmo allows that ability using any bank's debit card.

What's more, is that in the spirit of the two services being mutually exclusive in their intent, then it only makes more sense to me to treat the services as truly being independent of one another. Yet Venmo told me that my PayPal debit card was in fact a Venmo debit card ... and yet it literally is NOT!

So it seems that even though PayPal claims - through their policies and their words, that the two services were designed for two completely different purposes, that when engaging the services in practice, there is definitely an intimate connection between the two. Venmo claims ownership of my PayPal debit card. That is not an implementation of reality that is aligned with the stated policies and intentions of PayPal concerning the two services being independent and designed to meet two different needs. If they were designed to be isolated, then Venmo should never be able to say that my PayPal debit card belongs to Venmo.

They are either mutually exclusive, or they aren't. But it is entirely irrational and illogical to SAY that they are mutually exclusive, then in practice, create such an intimate connection between the two.

If my PayPal card is truly a Venmo-owned debit card, then the funds that the card is connected to should be accessible within Venmo. I do not think a rational person would disagree with that statement. Yet it remains the objective truth, that I cannot move money from my Venmo-owned PayPal debit card into my Venmo account. Which makes no sense in any reality or in any universe.

This is a rather unusual paradox in terms of service design, and I would like to assume that this was merely an oversight on PayPal's part and that it is a problem that should be fixed.

There is no theory, concept, or standard of reason that would say that I should not be able to move funds in both directions between two accounts that are owned by the same company. ESPECIALLY when - if those accounts were owned by different companies, there would be no reason at all that I could not move funds between them in either direction. This is even more true since Venmo currently allows moving money from a bank account into your Venmo account using the debit card of any bank. It is when the PayPal [er - Venmo] debit card is chosen by the user, that this ability is not possible and is denied.

So Venmo allows you to transfer funds into your Venmo account, using the debit card from your bank - UNLESS your bank happens to be PayPal ... which of course, makes no sense whatsoever from the perspective of the end user (the customer). The implementation of Venmo - clearly demonstrates that Venmo discriminates against PayPal. Your money is good, as long as it doesn't come from PayPal ... this is a strong contradiction since the money in both accounts, is being managed by PayPal.

Denying this ability under the directive of making the INTENT of the two accounts into an implemented reality has no supporting context from which to actually make that restriction into our reality. Furthermore, it would be impossible to create that reality if the two companies were not both owned by PayPal, which makes the dichotomy even more bizarre than it is. Yet that reality exists ... and so here I am posting my voice where I stand in opposition to it and am stating my desire to either understand that decision ... or if no reasonable explanation can be rendered, then this is a plea to simply fix it and make it right.

I do understand that someone can use a bank account that is not owned by PayPal as a proxy to move money between the two accounts ... and I just now realized that this could be the reason why PayPal decided to not allow it from their bank account ... perhaps PayPal somehow makes money on those third party transactions and if that is true, then that does explain why they have made such an irrational reality for their customers. But if that is true, then it also reveals that profit at the expense of their user's experience with them matters more than does the emotional well-being of their customers.

Also, that doesn't change my plea, for PayPal to make the usage of both services (Venmo and PayPal) as fluid as possible, if for no other reason, then for the reason of designing their services to be as convenient and pleasurable as they can possibly be for their customers. Realizing that when their customers have a positive experience when using their services, they will be the best advocate in driving more customers to their services. The objective truth is that customers are the sole reason why companies grow profits and when a company's customers speak negatively about their experiences with the company, the loss in revenue, though not technically measurable, is in fact substantial, as study after study in that regard has revealed.

I won't post idle threats and say that I will be taking my business elsewhere because, in reality, I won't. I am merely pleading with the human side of PayPal and I am asking them to change the current design of their two services, Venmo and PayPal so that there are no barriers to moving funds between them. It is not an unreasonable expectation, ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that PayPal owns both services. And I would argue that the ability to move money between both services is an expectation that any reasonable person would have unless there is something here that I simply am incapable of realizing, which of course I am open to considering ... as anyone should be.

Thank you