Empty Box Scam

[slimtim]

Hi, I need some advise.

We sent a customer a box of produicts to the value of £380 through our online shop.

They recieved it then simply opened a dispute with paypal stating 'Ebay purchase, empty box'.

They didn't buy of ebay and all the tracking shows there were no issues in transit. He later claimed the box was intact with no damge and sent some bogus images of our box empty with a couple of bricks in.

Obviously we disputed the case, but within 24 hours Paypal had refunded the buyer and the case was closed. I tried appealing the decision. But the case just closes again in favour of the buyer.

How and why do they do this when the buyer is blatantly lying. I've just checked the help area and it seems paypal give a step by step guide for how to win a claim or make a police complaint which 'm guessing this person did as they already emailed to say this as if they knew the procedure already.

We ahve been a long standing customer with paypal, a company that in fees alone have probably taken around £100000 in commision from our sales.

So my question is why do they just close it in favour of the buyer? when blatantly they have lied, but more frustratingly treat us with so much distain they will not even speak to us to tell us why they keep closing the case.

Seriously disgusted with Paypal after this episode.

[kernowlass]

When there is no way to know who is telling the truth paypal normally find in favour of the buyer.

You can't prove you sent the items and the buyer can't prove the box was empty.

Catch 22 really.

[miisssunshine]

Im so sorry to hear that the same thing happened to you as it did me. We sell apple products as a very small business on ebay, the other week we sold some guy (scumbag) a macbook pro he paid £650 for it. As soon as he received it he opened a case through paypal (not ebay) and claimed there was no laptop in it but a bunch of a4 paper!! To my discust paypal gave him his money back within 7 days despite the fact that the courier had not even done their investigations. I have been in contact with police who just say its his word against mine so nothing can be done. We are is disbelieve as to how this can happen in 2014 when there are so many rules and regulations for everything else. This is a massive flaw in the system which we unfortunatley have been victims of. We can no longer use ebay as cannot afford to pay the money to bring our paypal account out of the £650 negative balance. We have decided we can no longer afford to operate through ebay anymore. Paypal are acting imorally in these cases because they cannot be bothered to establish who is the victim.

Hope this never happens to you again.

All the best.

[shameonyou2]

Hello PayPal users,

I've just been the victim of the 'empty box scam' that is sweeping the PayPal system. I sold a watch through eBay to the tune of £650, the eBay buyer claimed the box was empty, the 'Fench thief' even had the audacity to sent me an image of the empty box! He opened a case through eBay initially but opened another through PayPal some days later, a lot of experience for a 'newbie' eBay buyer with Zero feedback I thought. I only found out he had opened the new account on that day simply to defraud me out of a watch. The chance of your average Postman or courier opening any parcels is extremely remote but when a buyer has Zero feedback and a new account the odds of it happening are astronomical, he stole the watch... end of.

My fault for selling to a Zero feedback buyer you might think.... Not so, we were all Newbies once, in fact 20% of my customers had a 1-3 feedback score, he was verified and his address checked out along with a contact number.

PayPal have just informed me that they are going to refund him! I don't blame the thief, well I do, he will get what's coming when the time is right! But I will get my money back by ripping off PayPal and doing my best to find an alternative way to accept payments without this terrible scam of a loophole.

A number of years ago PayPal got rid of the 'viewable online signature' for proof of delivery, they should now consider ruling out the 'empty box scam' loophole!

My advice to you people.... PayPal is not safe for eBay sellers, find an alternative, accept cash, bank transfer, cheque, card payments over the phone anything but PayPal, the system is flawed!

Regards

One **bleep** off Ex PayPal user.

[Sev71]

well... i am on the other side of this because i received a box with some of the contents missing and after opening it i found that the box had been opened from the bottom and resealed after 150 euros worth of the contents were stolen. I have dealt with the seller many times and i have an order already pending with him. I have never had an issue in the past and as i trust him i dont want him to lose 150 euros and i will have to deal with him many times in the future. So what should i do... take a 150 Euro hit or risk losing a trusted supplier?

[kernowlass]

@Sev71

I would report it to the police to get an incident number and then contact the delivery agent and ask why it appears the items were removed ''during delivery''.

[Sev71]

Thanks for your reply, but i just don't think the police would be interested and i had a good chat with a couple of people from my local delivery firm and they said the problem is as it was sent from overseas the items could have been removed anywhere in the chain. I did not sign for this item a family member did i guess it will serve as a costly reminder to check all packets and parcels properly before signing. Its annoying because as soon as i picked the box up i could tell by the weight that something was amiss.

[Jlrhino]

I just got ripped off from a buyer that claimed empty box as well. I'm furious with PayPal and Furious that this happened because I don't know what I could have done to prevent it. I have a receipt that confirms delivery with the weight of the package. Buyer has no evidence other than he said the package was empty and paypal sided with him. This will likely be my last PayPal transaction after using it 4 over 10 years

[kernowlass]

@Jlrhino

So in 10 years you have had one bad transaction and want to finish with paypal.

Just as well shopkeepers on the high street don't feel the same as all the shops would shut when they had x1 shoplifter  

[Jlrhino]

if all a buyer has to do is claim "empty box" was received despite all the evidence i presented to paypal (receipts, picture of the item being sent, etc) that it was in fact sent.........then yes i am absolutley done with paypal.  at least as a seller.   fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me......