Seller protection?

[recordpalace]

PayPal is pushing their "buyer protection" programme, but where is the seller protection? It's quite obvious that more and more "buyers" realize that they can take advantage of the buyer protection service. Lots of sellers (private and commercial) outside of eBay accept PayPal. Problem is, of course, that if merchandise is not sent registered (which is very common, especially for not so expensive items), the "buyer" can, after receiving, can claim a "item not received" file, and always!!! get their money back. I run a small business with secondhand records, mostly vinyl, and I ship worldwide from Sweden. Buyers are always offered a registered mail option, but almost all chose not to, as the cost will be too high. More and more often, I now have to face "item not received" disputes, and I always loose the money. The two most obvious cases are:

1. A buyer who has his own used records internet shop, filed an "item not received" dispute, and of course got his money back. Only a few days later, the very same records he "hadn't received", showed up in his own listings.

2. A buyer who placed an order for some records and a music book, placed a new order two weeks later, ordering another copy of the book + some other stuff, telling that a friend also wanted a copy. A few weeks later, he files "item not received" disputes for BOTH orders!

It's quite obvious so, that PayPal are not interested in "solving" any disputes, they just scratch the buyers' backs, and don't give a **bleep** about sellers. I am now going to close my PayPal account, and I have opened a Moneybookers account, which actually also has lower fees.

[fortran7790]

In fact, there is no such thing as "seller protection".

Paypal has all kinds of excuses not to protect sellers.

If the buyer uses a credit card, they can always reverse the payment.

I am in USA. Palpal told me my ebay sale qualifies for "seller protection", and I shipped the item to confirmed address.

I followed all rules.

The payment was reversed before delivery. fortunately I still get a chance to intercept the shipment.

But I lost shipping and have to pay a "reverse fee". Paypal will not cover this.

The rule is if paypal can get money from the other party, you are lucky.

Otherwise, paypal will NEVER cover your loss at its expense.

Paypal only want to charge fee.

I think I'd better stay away from ebay and paypal.

[zbus]

There is no protection at all. Buyer even agreed to ship with regular mail without tracking option but then claimed not received and paypal granded the favor to them doesnt matter if you can show the shipping receipt. This thread needs to get bigger to show and help other sellers to realize and stay away from the "no exist seller protection".

[inuyashalover21]

I have never been protected as a seller nor has my little brother.  My brother sold a PS2 slim bundle with DVD box sets, games, and a limited edition resident evil chainsaw controller (Still in the box unopened). We packed everything tight with bubble wrap and sent it off. He got the item and said it was not as described. He opened up a claim and sent it back. When we opened it it looked like a tornado hit the box. The ps2 was busted, DVD's missing and the controller that was still in the packaging was busted into pieces. He got a partial refund but I was really P.O. He bought everything for $90.00 and the controller alone was worth that price. Maybe I should buy items and then strip parts and send it back. I can't do that as I have a conscience.

[Lucky7_Deals]

This message is to Inuyashalover21. I don't know if too many days have passed since your transaction took place, but I've had a similar experience where a buyer tried to scam me on an Xbox 360 bundle purchase. He bought a new system bundled with a couple of games from me, and then returned a broken Xbox 360 console without the games! I called PayPal and let them know what happened. Since the purchase in question was about $230, the PayPal agent asked me if I'd be able to file a police report against the buyer. I said yes, and I did just that at my local sheriff's station. The deputy who recorded the case, gave me his business card and a copy of the police report. I faxed them to PayPal, and they refunded the full $230 to me. It took some time and leg work, but I was able to get the money that the buyer was trying to steal back with his scam. I don't know if the police took action against the buyer because he was in a different city and state, and obviously my local police didn't have jurisdiction... but maybe they were able to get some cooperations from the buyer's local law enforcement. Also, I don't know if PayPal actually took the $230 from the buyer when they awarded me that amount. It's possible that they game him his refund when he returned the shipment to me, and then also gave me the amount when I contacted them to state that what he returned was junk, and filed a police report against him. But at least I was able to get my money, and if you have time to act, then you may as well.

[Baylover1234]

Buyer Protection is the biggest scam I have run into with Ebay ! I sold an item ( I  have sold several similar with good feedback ) and after completing transaction buyer complained about shipping cost. I always use Calculated shipping !. I explained to buyer that different zones are different prices for shipping. Then I get an email from buyer that item is not as described. I offered refund. Within 3 days she opens a case and leaves negative feedback ! Paypal put a hold on funds and then quickly refunded her money plus shipping from my account.  She apparently doesn't have to return item !!  PLUS I can't leave negative feedback for her to warn others of her scam. All of her emails were demanding and obnoxious. HOW IS EBAY GOING TO SURVIVE WITHOUT SELLERS ????

[LC2010]

PayPal promises Seller Protection, but does not provide it.  They just took $800 from me.  A lady purchased a champion-sired show puppy from me and paid with PayPal, using a credit card.  She received the puppy and is very happy with him.  She has pictures of him on her website and has plans to show him.  However, she and her husband are having marital problems, and he just got out of jail for domestic abuse.  She is divorcing him, so he filed an Unauthorized Use of PayPal Account on my sale.  The PayPal account is hers, but the credit card used is his.  So PayPal sided with him and reversed my payment.  PayPal is now in the business of settling divorce matters!!  Isn't that sweet?  They did not require that the puppy be sent back to me in order to receive the refund.  I am an innocent party to this divorce, but PayPal happily punishes me by stealing my money and my puppy.  I don't know how this can be legal.  I've faxed all the supporting evidence to PayPal, but I haven't heard back.  By the way, this all took less than 24 hours!!  They notified me of the dispute on Sunday, Dec. 19, 2010, and they decided the issue and reversed the payment on Monday, December 20, 2010.  

I did find the following places to lodge complaints against PayPal:

Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara County

Better Business Bureau of Nebraska 

U.S. Federal Trade Commission

California Attorney General

Nebraska Attorney General

Internet Fraud Complaint Center (FBI & NW3C)

There are also frequent class action lawsuits against PayPal, which they have been losing.  People who have been cheated by PayPal have got to fight back.

[kriker]

I agree with your observation of Paypal. It seems that Paypal just wants to have the problem resolved at the sellers expensive. Paypal does not follow the Insurance guidelines from the USPS so the seller loses. Does someone know how to use the MoneyBookers for another source. Please let me know how to connect with this other site

Thank you

[castingglance]

I have just recently been scammed as well. I sold a very expensive dress for pageants to a woman. I sent it to her and she disputed that the condition was not as discribed. Even though I discribed the dress as used and sold as is with detailed explaination and pictures of the actual dress. I think she wore it and is now sending it back : / I even had proof that she emailed me several times asking before hand if I would take returns. I should have seen the red flags with that one. I wrote to customer service and they ignored my questions about BUYER protection. I have sent 4 emails since they offered her a refund and only 2 were answered. None of them answered my questions as to why she deserved to get a refund. SHAME ON YOU PAYPAL.

[kriker]

Why can't we as group of seller talk to corporate. I am hopeful that if Papal listens to the sellers maybe we the sellers can help change the policy of Paypal to protect both the buyer and the seller. Who wants to try?

[scamyak]

Paypal does NOT protect the seller, and even on Ebay you can only leave positive feedback!  I am livid after being a seller for years & selling items all over the world with 100% feedback, I recently sold a cell phone on Ebay.  The buyer contacted me through Ebay 2 days after I shipped, but I was on a ship & had no internet access.  He immediately put a claim through Paypal saying he did not receive the item - this was being shipped literally around the world - and now they sided with him!  So I'm out a $150 phone, and will lose lots of business as I now will require all International buyers to buy insurance, Priority or higher mail, and will refuse to sell to buyers with less than 50 feedback.   We are all being scammed and they are doing nothing to protect us!