Paypal Denies Sellers' Rights

[micron]

Here is my story (sorry if it is long):

On March 31st I shipped the package to the buyer, after he had paid, using USPS First Class International Mail. After a month, the buyer started a dispute saying that he had still not received the package. I had no proof for this case because USPS does not provide tracking for First Class International Mail, but even registered mail would have not been enough to win a Paypal case, so I lost the case.

I assumed that the package was lost in the mail, but long behold, after another months wait, I received the return package. The buyer had said that if I sent the package, he would gladly refund my $129.99 back. Another Paypal representative has also said that I could appeal at any time that I had proof. Knowing that I had no guaranteed of selling my item again. I sent the item again with USPS Express Mail which had tracking, making sure that I had the address and everything correct. Unfortunately, when I shipped the package, the case had already ended on June 4th. However remembering that I could appeal I any time, I appealed the case.

This is when the trouble began. The buyer responded to my emails saying that he has still not received his item, and soon enough, he stopped responding to the emails all together. I have written several emails and made several phone calls to Paypal because they kept denying my appeal. At first they said that they had no proof of postage, so I faxed that over to them. Then they said that it was past the dead line; however the Paypal appeals agent failed to understand that international shipping takes a very very long time, especially to Vietnam, so I told them that. Then another representative told me that the tracking number does not go to the buyer’s zip code, and thus they cannot refund my money back because of the lack of proof of delivery. However, international tracking number never goes all the way to a zip code because the respective country does not have a postal system like that. The story and reasons for the denial of refund keeps changing.

This means that any buyer at any time could easily state that they “have not received the package”, raise a dispute on Paypal, and win every single time. This sounds like to me a very easy way to scam the seller.

All of this frustrates me. I am currently out $129.99 (that I had paid off due to Paypal’s harassing phone calls), and a PSP. The buyer can easily lie and scam the seller on Paypal, because they hold the seller accountable to provide proof. This is the a huge flaw I see for scams.

UPDATE: Paypal still denies my appeals and does not refund my money because it is after the "timeline". As I have stated, the item did not return to me until after the deadline. Remember, they told me that I could appeal at any time.

I have sent the FTC a complaint. What else could I do?

[AudioSeller]

You can go to "Contact Us" and look for by phone.

They will give you a Pin number that allows you to contact them for 1 hour only after receiving the pin -- to get live human being.

They give the phone number at that time.

Good luck!  Don't get your hopes up.  Sellers are rarely treated fairly.

[AudioSeller]

I'd love to move to a different payment method too.

If you find something that works well, let us all know.

PayPayl's policies for sellers are terribly and an alternative method would be great.

I look forward to the day that I can quit selling on Ebay.

Selling on Ebay would be great if Paypal had policies in place to protect sellers.

But they don't.

They let buyers file frivolous disputes prematurely (without proof of any real problem) so they can earn millions of dollars of interest on our money.  

They deduct shipping money for "holds" when we actually spent the money to ship it!

They find any excuse to take our money and make money on our money!

I look forward to quitting when the economy improves.  For now, I am stuck doing this and I hate dealing with Paypal's unfair  policies.

I am some business out there comes up with a competitive payment service soon.

[AudioSeller]

I'd love to move to a different payment method too.

If you find something that works well, let us all know.

PayPayl's policies for sellers are terrible and an alternative method would be great.

I look forward to the day that I can quit selling on Ebay.

Selling on Ebay would be great if Paypal had policies in place to protect sellers.

But they don't.

They let buyers file frivolous disputes prematurely (without proof of any real problem) so they can earn millions of dollars of interest on our money.  

They deduct shipping money for "holds" when we actually spent the money to ship it!

They find any excuse to take our money and make profits on our money that they unfairly put on hold.

My life is being terribly affected as I write this by a hold that I can prove is in France in customs.  But they want even give me the shipping money back... even though their is proof the item is in France!

I look forward to quitting Ebay when the economy improves.  For now, I am stuck doing this, but I hate dealing with Paypal's unfair  policies.

I hope some business out there comes up with a competitive payment service soon.

I would enjoy my Ebay business if I did not have to deal with PayPal's holds and reversals and unfair practices to sellers.

I particularly despise that they "hold" and "deduct" shipping money from your account AFTER you have shipped the item and can proof you shipped it.  So the money is already spent to do what you are suppose to do -- ship it!

What is fair about that???   Zero.  Absolutely unfair.  But... they earn more interest and more profits while we as sellers, suffer!

They hurt us but they don't care!  More money for Paypal!

[The_Coffee_Lady]

Only ship priority. I have never shipped first class because of that very reason and I always have tracking and insurance so if they buyer says they never got it you can contact the postal service and they will tract the package back to the customer for you  or wherever it is. I have had a package tracked all the way to UK and they found it.

[tj10]

sorry, no advice to give

If you get one thing right, paypal comes up with something else. It just goes on and on. they are money hand over fist and if we did not sell they would be in trouble. there are other way to collect money. we could request a check and once the check clears than ship. we would save money on the high fees

[AudioSeller]

I have just lost money too for an item that was also sent economy mail with no tracking.

Now I am out the item that sold for $86.00 and also the shipping money.

The only solution I can find to this problem is to never ship economy mail - i.e., first class, media mail, etc -- that does not have any tracking.   Delivery confirmation doesn't help in these instances becasue if the package is still in transit and taking a long time... the buyer -- who wanted to ship it cheap - can get their money back.

The risk should be on the buyer if they do not want to pay for tracking service, not on us sellers.

I can't afford the losses when buyers claim to not receive it or it takes too long to get there.

I can't afford to do business that way -- buyers get to save money and ship cheap - but then when you can't track it, they get their money back when you can't track where the package is!

No more cheap shipping prices.  Buyers must all pay for tracking now or I will be out of the Ebay business.  Paypal is too quick to let buyers file disputes and then get their money back!   Sellers are simply not protected.

Only two solutions.  1) Quit selling on Ebay or 2) Require buyers to purchase some kind of tracking.

As sellers, we can complain all we want to Ebay/Paypal, but they are not on our side.

The seller is treated unfairly.   The buyer has the advantage.

[AudioSeller]

Would someone from PayPal please explain this to me.

Why does PayPal get to earn the interest on money held in escrow during disputes?

If the seller has done nothing wrong and the item simply hasn't arrived yet (causing the dispute filing by the buyer), why doesn't the seller get to earn the interest on the funds held in escrow when the package arrives and it is resolved?

Since we as sellers are denied use of the funds AND also PayPal makes us cover the shipping money we spent and put us in the negative with every dispute filing -- why don't we get compensated for this distrurbance to our bank accounts by earning interest on the money in escrow (held by Paypal as a safeguard to the buyer)?

All of this held money is earning interest.

Why is Paypal legatlly entitled to earn the interest?

Why doen't Paypal give the injured seller - injured by the funds on hold - the interest since the seller did nothing wrong -- but was injured by the ordeal of not having the payment and having to cover the shipping money deduction out of his own pocket?

Why is this legal?  The interest should go to the Buyer.

Please someone explain why Paypal is legally entitled to keep all of the interest they earn on the escrow holds.

If Paypal is truly motivated to protect the buyer, then it should compensate the buyer with interest.

But is Paypal encouraging to buyers to "file disputes EARLY" simply a ploy to earn them them more interest on SELLER"S rightfully earned money?

Someone please explain this to me. 

It seems grossly illegal.

The person who should have possession of the money (the seller) should be earning the interest.

That is the legal way escrow works.

This is grossly illegal for Paypal to earn the interest on all the seller holds.

What greedy owner of PayPal dreamed this up?

They are laughting at our seller complaints while they count their millions of dollars of interest.

This is what is making the global economy tank.  Pure greed and illegal practices to the average person, while a get rich quick scheme benefits those lucky Paypal owners who dreamed this scheme up.

Sellers should rightfully be earning the interest on the money in escrow.

[notastood]

I think the buyer wins everytime! In my experience a buyer said that there was late delivery yet it was within the deadline on the listing.  The real reason this 'buyer' raised the dispute is because he didnt want to pay the full postage as he had opted for the postage if you have bought before from me.  I understand that it was a 'mistake' but his unreasonable attitutde eg what he wrote in his official response was different to the text he sent me.  In his text he threatened me ' i will give you  two options, send the item give positive feedback or 2. give refund and will give me negative feedback'.  Now this doesnt sound like a nice person

The agent i spoke with, could see that he is trying it on yet the advise i got was that it was best to refund. 

Hopefully in time buyers like this will get their comuppance

[Zakams]

The solution is to complain to the BBB? How is **bleep** and moaning a solution?

[The_Coffee_Lady]

So true