PayPal Community

Ricnok · ‎Nov-17-2012

First, let me say I realize eBay owns PayPal and that the corporate mentality is such that the needs of the company outweigh the needs of fee paying customers. Second, I have always considered the ability to process shipping labels through PayPal as a service which was included in the transaction fees we pay. The effective removal of PayPal shipping in my opinion results in a reduction of the value proposition of using the PayPal service. As far as PayPal shipping goes, I do not understand why my 2 PayPal accounts are being forced to use eBay Shipping. Back last November PayPal started defaulting my eBay transactions over to eBay without any notice or announcement what so ever. I started using PayPal Multi Order Shipping and had no problems. Then a few weeks after, the force to eBay stopped and PayPal shipping was back, again without any announcement or notice. A few months ago, PayPal shipping for both my accounts started defaulting to eBay once again without any notice or announcement. Again, I resumed using PayPal Multi Order Shipping until 3 weeks ago when that too stopped working. A call to PayPal customer service at that time resulted in the explanation that PayPal was aware Multi Order Shipping was not working, but there was no idea when the service would be restored. Now I am using the PayPal ship now process. Wwhen I have Priority Mail Padded Flat Rate Envelopes or Regional Rate Boxes to ship, I go to the USPS Web site to process those shipments. Needless to say, when that becomes necessary, neither PayPal nor eBay get a dime out of the shipping label purchase, so both companies lose the revenue associated with those transactions. Bottom line is that now, instead of collecting revenue for eBay by forcing me to ship from there, the company now loses revenue each time I go over to USPS to process labels that should/could have been processed through Paypal. I get that eBay wants to show revenue increases on their books, and that shifting the shipping process from PayPal over to eBay helps them accomplish that goal. But this is not a customer friendly thing to do. As a seller who offers same day shipping, the ability to process shipping labels is vital to my business. In my opinion, eBay's shipping process is klunky and counter intuitive. In the first force over to eBay, I found multiple occasions where the shipping feature was just plain broken or generating error messages that prevented completing labels with no time frame for when the system would be back up and functioning properly. eBay's limited character space for messaging buyers is abysmally short and does not allow for messaging that is conducive to good business practices. eBay's shipping process does not provide scan sheets as PayPal Multi Order Shipping does. In other words, eBay shipping is a very poor replacement service in almost every way. On the other hand, I have never experienced a system issue with payPal shipping. PayPal allows significantly more characters for messaging that allows for better, clearer and more professional communications when necessary. Since being forced to use eBay shipping, I have removed PayPal as a payment option on my non eBay listings. The only way potential buyers can complete purchases on my non ebay listings using PayPal is if they email me and request that I accept PayPal. I was inspired to this by the way eBay insists sellers can accept checks or money orders for purchases but only when the buyer requests. So eBay/PayPal, here is my feedback.. Remember, we are your customers. Afford us the same value and quality of service you expect us to offer our buyers. Afford us some consideration when it comes to our preferences. Allow us to utilize systems which we prefer and find more productive. Get over the revenue shifting issue and the attempt to inflate eBay revenues by transferring shipping processes from PayPal over to eBay. Restore the ability of sellers who are forced to use the inferior eBay shipping process to resume using PayPal for processing shipping labels. At the very least, allow customers the option to designate which shipping process they prefer to use and accept that choice. While you are at it, update PayPal shipping so that your customers can process Priority Mail Padded Envelopes as well as Priority Regional Rate Boxes so that customers are better served using their process of choice. Stop trying to force us over to eBay for those transactions. I appreciate the chance to sound off and hope that this feedback does not fall on deaf ears.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-30-2011

Hi Adrian, PayPal shipping was removed in early November with not as much as an announcement. PayPal CS rep said that PayPal shipping was being retired, and that all shipping was now going to have to go through eBay. I had several issues with that: There was no announcement, despite eBay/PayPal CEO's previous promise that major changes would be announced in advance and that no changes would be made during the holidays. eBay shipping messaging has a 600 character limit, this despite the fact that eBay allows buyers to rate sellers on communication. It is disconcerting that eBay allows buyers to rate sellers on communication then forces a limit on seller to buyer communication with the shipping notification. I sell on sites other than eBay, and the idea of processing shipping labels on eBay for non eBay transactions is a non starter. eBay is glitch prone and buggy. If shipping is moved to eBay only, this creates a problem as I promise same day shipping when items are purchased and payment is completed by a certain time. The possibility that I would need to process a shipping label for a same day transaction and the chance that eBay shipping would be down is unacceptable. Having access to both eBay and PayPal shipping is vital. eBay customer service is terrible, but PayPal excels, the thought of having an issue processing a label through eBay and dealing with eBay's script reading CS agents is a non starter. So the questions are: Is PayPal shipping back to stay or is there going to be another change to eBay after the holidays? If shipping is going to be pushed to eBay and PayPal shipping discontinued, does the company appreciate the fact that if I have to open an account with a third party shipping service for non eBay transactions, it only makes sense that I would take my eBay transactions and push them through that third party service in order to maximize the value of the additional fee?

Ricnok · ‎Nov-30-2011

Earlier this month, PayPal shipping was not accessible, and PayPal CS agents were saying that all shipping was now going to be processed through eBay. I found this unacceptable on many levels: eBay systems are frequently subject to glitches, removal of PayPal shipping would leave no back up in place. As a seller who offers same day shipping, this would negatively impact my business. PayPal customer service excels where as eBay Customer Service is essentially clueless and is largely incapable of answering questions except[t by reading scripts. eBay messaging to buyers with shipping confirmation allowed significantly less space for personalizing messages. Funny how eBay wants to allow sellers to be rated on Communication, then limits the length of communication sellers can have with buyers. As a seller on platforms other than eBay, I have no interest in processing shipping labels through eBay for non eBay transactions, and if eBay is going to become the only shipping service, I would then sign up with a third party postage provider and take all of my shipping business to that service. The sudden unannounced change imposed at the beginning of the Holiday Season showed absolutely no consideration for sellers in light of the fact that eBay/PayPal CEO previously promised that seller facing changes would be announced with 60 days notice, and that no changes would be made during the Holidays. My Questions: Is PayPal shipping back to stay, or is it back just for the Holidays and are we going to be forced to go through eBay again later? Why has information not been posted and made public in the interest of keeping us informed as to what is going on? The lack of information before, during and after this on again/off again change makes it seem as though this company has little or no regard for keeping their fee paying customers fully informed and up to date. Thanks for your response.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-19-2011

Hi Olivia, I just encountered another problem. In my PayPal accounts, labels processed through PayPal have payments directed to US Postal Service, and labels processed through eBay have payments directed to eBay Shipping..... The problem is that when I want to run a report to see how much I have spent on shipping, I click on the More Filters Link, I select Shipping, and guess what??? Payments that were directed to eBay shipping are not recorded on the summary for Shipping Payments!!! It is obvious that there was no plan whatsoever established before this change was simply forced on sellers, and that those responsible did not think the whole thing out. eBay Corp. has made the shipping process such a mess on so many levels as they sprung this change with no notice, and apparently with no thought given to the impact this would have. eBay needs to stop micromanaging everyones business as it is obvious they can not manage their own affairs effectively.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-19-2011

My vote would be to have both PayPal and eBay shipping platforms available. Sellers could then have the option to use whichever platform best suits their needs. Those sellers with a preference would always have access to the other platform in the event one or the other was down for any reason.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-18-2011

Brew... I sell on eBay and off eBay. I treat each platform as a separate business. Buyers pay me with PayPal, and as such from a business standpoint, I prefer to have shipping processed through PayPal. I do not want my non eBay customers to be exposed to ebay as many of them choose not to do business with eBay. Can eBay access information from PayPal...probably. The difference is they have to go to PayPal to get that information as opposed to simply compiling it as it flows through eBay's shipping platform. I prefer the illusion that eBay has less access if everything stays in PayPal. As an eBay seller I can attest to the frequent glitches buyers and sellers experience with eBay's buggy IT structure. From search to checkout, to messaging, eBay can and often does confound buyers and sellers in one way or another on an almost daily basis. On the other hand, PayPal has had it's issues, but PayPal issues are no where near the frequent occurrences which eBay manages to generate. Of the two platforms, PayPal offers the most solid day in day out consistent and reliable platforms and that includes shipping. The thought that eBay shipping would be the only shipping platform available given the frequency of eBay IT glitches is simply not an acceptable proposition to a seller who promises same day shipping. As an eBay seller, buyers rate as part of eBay's DSR program. High scores enable sellers to qualify for higher search placement as well as 20% discounts on final value fees. eBay's shipping platform has a 600 character limit on messages which can be sent as part of the automated shipping confirmation. PayPal shipping allowed for significantly more space for seller to buyer messaging. eBay knowingly reduced the amount of customizable messaging space and then expects sellers to maintain satisfactory rating scores for communication. eBay utilizes the excuse that they are conforming to industry best practices and standards when they propose changes which sellers find objectionable. At the same time, eBay set up the eBay shipping platform with a severe limit on customizable messaging which effectively disregards the industry standard which their own company previously established on the PayPal platform. Corporate consistency is missing with that part of the change. As to the objection that shipping was not integrated to the PayPal shopping cart, it is not surprising that eBay is making that integration part of the shipping platform on their side while failing to offer it on the PayPal side. eBay Corp could make it work on both platforms, but thus far they chose not to. That decision enables them to manipulate sellers into accepting the eBay shipping platform more readily and achieve their accounting and bookkeeping goals at the same time. I have no objection to eBay Corp being the beneficiary of my business dealings with their PayPal division. What I do object to is their attempt to eliminate PayPal shipping as an option without any notice and with previously mentioned message restrictions. This company earns plenty from sellers on and off of eBay's marketplace. They can well afford to have a shipping platform on eBay as well as on PayPal. They could easily make both platforms offer the same consistent experience, features and functionality. They simply chose not to do this in order to make the eBay balance sheet appear healthier than what it really is. As an eBay seller, I would rather see eBay Corp make genuine improvements which attract more business to the eBay marketplace rather than have them shift revenue around and simply claim those improvements are taking place when in fact they are not.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-18-2011

@ brewhardware... When I purchase a shipping label through PayPal, the payment shows as going to US Postal Service, however, when I was forced to use eBay's platform through PayPal, the payment went to eBay Shipping. Of course, eBay then pays USPS but only after passing the money through their accounts. We are being naive if we believe that eBay and PayPal do not make a small profit for handling the transactions and for processing our shipping labels. If you do not believe that eBay profits from handling the transactions for shipping labels, then how did they come up with the ability to discount Priority Mail Shipments for their Top Rated Sellers? I certainly do not believe that USPS offers a special rate to eBay's Top Rated Sellers. That discount likely reflects the majority of the commission they earn being passed on to their best sellers, and not some benevolent gift bestowed upon Top Rated Sellers out of the goodness of their corporate hearts as a reward for exceeding eBay's performance standards. When eBay Corp. makes their quarterly reports, they will report the total price of each label processed through eBay Shipping as income even though the money is passing through their hands minus their commission. The total amount they receive as payments to eBay shipping will be reported as income, and the actual cost of shipping they pay to USPS will be treated as an expense. If shipping is done on PayPal this does not happen because the money is already on PayPal's books and the cost of the label is paid by PayPal to USPS. Of course, when making their quarterly report eBay Corp will not define their new source of income one way or another. Think about how eBay has been pushing sellers to offer free shipping on their widgets which means nothing more than the seller is including shipping into the selling price of their item. The advantage to eBay is they can report higher GMV (Gross Merchandise Value) when sellers include shipping in the selling price of their item. This is the same method they utilized with regard to the additional revenue they received after they started charging final value fees on shipping. They treat the new revenue as income but made no mention of the new fees charged as part of their quarterly report. Unless Wall Street Analysts and investors dig very deeply into the details of the report, they will simply believe that the higher revenue figures represent higher sales, and eBay Corp is happy to have them believe that. If Wall Street Analysts were to determine that any increase in eBay profits were directly related to higher fees, they might not see that business model to be as favorable to investors as greater sales volume would be. This methodology is employed by many huge corporations. The tactics are not exclusive to eBay, merely unique to eBay Corp based on their business model and the manner in which they are able shift revenue from one division to another division of their company.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-18-2011

One thing that never cesases to amaze me is the heavy handed tactics eBay Corp employs to impose their will. There motto seems to be never use a tack hammer when making a change, when a sledge hammer for a more dramatic effect. Instead of simply applying common sense and polling users about their preferences before implementing this ill conceived change, eBay Corp. simply imposed their will and made the change without regard for how their users feel about it. Apparently, improving eBay's weak balance sheet by transferring the revenue from shipping entirely into eBay was a higher priotity than customer satisfaction with the PayPal brand. As a result of their heavy handed tactics and the cofusion generated by the unannounced move to eliminate PayPal shipping, eBay Corp. has managed to infect many users with the anti eBay, anti PayPal vaccine. Because of eBay's ill conceived tactics, non eBay sellers that were once happy to accept PayPal for their non eBay transactions are now having second thoughts. eBay sellers who do not like the unannounced change imposed without notice less than 6 full weeks before Christmas and now looking to take their shipping business to a third party processor to avoid future complications and confusion. All this because eBay Corp arrogantly believes they know what people want and choose to impose their will at the drop of a hat. Will they ever wake up and face the fact that if they truly knew what people wanted, they would not be finding it so hard to to grow their marketplace business? eBay Corp needs to wake up and realize that heavy handed shock tatics such as these alienate and antagonize their customers, and drives more ill will than necessary. The leadership at eBay Corp needs to go back to school and review People Skills 101.

Ricnok · ‎Nov-17-2011

Hi Olivia, My apologies if any of my points duplicate previous posts, but with so many pages of replies, I am just going to throw my thoughts out there. Here are my objections the retirement of PayPal shipping and the change to eBay as the only shipping platform. eBay is an unreliable glitch-a-day mess, if PayPal shipping is permanently retired, there is no back up which means no shipping service, This is unacceptable to sellers and should be unacceptable to eBay corp..as well but it is apparently not on eBay corps radar. eBay's script reading customer support is abominable, when glitches arise it seems like sellers better understand issues than does eBay's support staff. I can not imagine trying to get through a shipping glitch with eBay's script reading support staff. Shipping has been bouncing back and forth between eBay and PayPal all week... I am guessing, but I believe this is likely due to the numerous glitches which sellers seem to be experiencing with eBay shipping. See my points 1 and 2 above. eBay shipping's seller to buyer messaging is limited to 600 characters. This is woefully inadequate. eBay wants buyers to rate sellers on communication, then makes it impossible for sellers to clearly establish buyer shipping expectations in messaging by limiting messaging space. This is setting sellers up for failure. eBay corp. preaches consistency and always justifies changes by citing industry standards. eBay corp.. established a standard with PayPal shipping and longer messaging space. Why does eBay corp.. fail to practice what they preach and allow the equivalent messaging space in eBay that they allowed in PayPal? I accept PayPal on sites other than eBay. I will not process shipping labels for non eBay transactions through eBay, no way, no how. This is non negotiable for my business. If it becomes necessary to open an account and pay the necessary fee for Stamps.com or Endicia to process shipping for non eBay sales then I will take all my eBay shipping business to that third party provider as well. Both eBay and PayPal will lose 100% of my shipping business. Is that the kind of change eBay corp. is really looking for? If eBay corp. permanently retires PayPal shipping and forces us to eBay for shipping, I see no need to continue to offer PayPal on my non eBay listings. Please let eBay corp. make it's mind up soon which way this is going, as I would be happy to remove PayPal from my non eBay listings effective immediately. eBay corporation's CEO, John Donahoe promised sellers we would receive 60 day notice of seller facing changes. There was no such advance announcement of this change....what gives? eBay corporation's CEO also promised sellers that no changes would be implemented during the Holiday selling season, so why did this change suddenly take effect in November? As it stands, in reward for all the confusion and aggravation, I will be processing all of my Priority Mail shipping directly through USPS for the rest of the year. Perhaps the lost business will be the 'noise' eBay corp. finds harder to ignore.

Ricnok · ‎Jan-13-2010

I took a look over at eBay. Check out Giving Works, there is a way to donate directly to Red Cross and lots of other groups using PayPal. There is no need to set up a listing or buy anything, you can select the group of your choice and there is a donate now feature. Guess I should have looked there first.

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