Seller refused to refund and Paypal refused to help me.

[Matus33]

Hello. The seller refused to refund me the full amount for the returned product within the 14-day period within the EU. I turned to Paypal with this simple and clear problem, as I was living under the belief that I was under the protection of Paypal. The seller decided to arbitrarily lower my refund by 15%, in violation of French law (French seller) and EU law. I described my problem in detail, provided all the evidence, wrote many reports, attached many links to laws, and Paypal still did not protect my rights and rejected my request. Can you advise me what I should do now that they have already closed my case and I can't comment or appeal in any way?

[kernowlass]

@Matus33 

You are talking about 2 separate things.

1. Paypal offers you buyer protection for items not received OR items received but not as described. If the item arrived and was as described but you changed your mind and wanted to return it then that is between you and the merchant.

2. If the merchant does not adhere to EU consumer law then you have the right to pursue them in the small claims court for your statutory rights. However as the item presumably was as described but you just changed your mind you may find that they are allowed to charge a re-stocking fee.

[Matus33]

1) Thank you for your opinion. so you practically tell me that if I return goods worth 1000 Eur and the seller arbitrarily decides not to return even one euro, the seller can literally rob me and Paypal will not do anything about it. And you tell me that in this case I can only turn to the relevant offices and courts (which is very complicated, lengthy and uneconomical in the case of smaller amounts), so Paypal is completely useless in this case and it does not serve the purpose for which I was convinced that it serves and that I am under protection. Basically, so far I've just been literally lucky that in the past I haven't come across sellers like this one and that they refunded my money.

2) According to the Consumer code of the given state and according to EU law, the seller is obliged to refund me the full amount for the value of the returned products without arbitrarily reducing the price. Where did you get the idea that this way the seller can deduct 15% from each item for restocking these items? According to your logic, if potential customers return purchased goods worth, for example, 100,000 Euros, the seller can keep 15,000 Euros from this amount without selling nothing? 

Code de la consommation:

Chapitre Ier : Contrats conclus à distance et hors établissement (Articles L221-1 à L221-29)
Section 6 : Droit de rétractation applicable aux contrats conclus à distance et hors établissement (Articles L221-18 à L221-28)

Article L221-24:
When exercising the right to withdraw from the contract within the 14-day period for returning goods, the merchant will reimburse the consumer for all amounts paid.

Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe (europa.eu)

Guarantees and returns under EU rules:
If you buy a product or service online, you have the right to return it within 14 days of delivery without providing any justification. For service contracts, the cooling off period expires 14 days after the day the contract was agreed. If the cooling-off period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended until the next working day. This is called the right of withdrawal.

Uplatnili ste svoje právo na odstúpenie od zmluvy a peniaze vám neboli vrátené | Národný inštitút pr...

Based on the above, I am absolutely convinced that I have been ripped off by this merchant in a speculative and illegal manner and Paypal has refused to assist me in the clear and distinct enforcement of my fundamental right. At least I found it with a smaller amount and let this be a warning to others that in this case their money is not safe, not even a single Euro/Dollar!

[kernowlass]

@Matus33 

Again you are mixing up what your ''legal rights'' are and what ''paypal buyer protection offers you''.

If you had paid via bank transfer and not used paypal at all and were scammed then your bank would not be able to help you at all as they offer 0 buyer protection (mostly only credit cards do), however that would not detract from your EU 'legal rights' against the vendor. Why? Because your legal rights and any buyer protection a card / bank or paypal offer you are 2 totally separate things which you seem to be unable to grasp.

Try reading up on buyer protection, see what is and is not offered and then you can risk assess your purchases the same as the rest of us do.

[Matus33]

You are in no way right and just misleading with your claims and I have to teach you again. Buyer protection and legal rights are two things that are very closely related, as buyer protection is directly based on the Consumer Protection Act, where my legal rights are established. I think you don't understand what I'm trying to explain. My buyer protection is represented by my legal rights, which I can secure either through the bank, the authorities, the courts, and until now I thought Paypal too. What can't you understand about that, that the buyer's protection should also cover the case if the seller does not return the money for the returned goods, don't you think? Wouldn't that be fairer than asserting your rights in an endless lawsuit? It is a fundamental pillar of buyer protection, which is based on legal rights!

[kernowlass]

@Matus33 

Rubbish. Paypal state they will do certain things to help you get back your money, those things are in their buyer protection policy.

Anything they don't cover 'may' be covered under your statutory rights.

That is like saying your bank should refund you everytime an online purchase goes wrong and you paid using a bank transfer. They won't because they don't 'cover' you for that. But you can do so yourself via a small claims court etc.  

Paypal covers you for ''non receipt of item'' OR ''item received but not as described''.

They do NOT cover you for buyer remorse.

If and only if you win a claim you 'may' get a refund on return of the item back to the seller and providing paypal with proof of that return with a tracking number. If your item was 'as described' and you just decided to return it under the merchants 14 day return policy then that is between you and the merchant.

[Matus33]

Very unprofessional and personal response. It may be rubbish to you, but to me and other buyers, it is their property and their rights that are affected. My bank will also compensate me if I pay by card. In the case of a bank transfer, I also have the opportunity to defend myself by filing a complaint with the relevant authority at the European level. Please do not defend the seller's actions and paypal protection at all costs, when I am injured here and many other potential clients of Paypal, as you yourself know very well that it is my right and my money to which I have a legal right, which I cannot collect through paypal, but from others in a way that, unfortunately, Paypal could have included in its consumer protection, but did not. According to the generally valid legal system, when the seller, for example, does not return any money to me for a refund, it is a much more serious action than when he delivers goods that for example are of a different color (in the case for which paypal provides protection, the buyer at least has the goods with him, and in my case, which is not covered by the protection , I have neither the goods nor my money). In a previous message, you even claimed to me that the seller is entitled within the EU to lower my refund for goods returned within the legal 14-day period purchased over the Internet by storage fees, which in itself speaks volumes about your legal knowledge.

[kernowlass]

@Matus33 

I can only give you the facts, i can't give you the intelligence to understand those facts so bye then.

Also I am only 'professional' in my job of work which is NOT on here. But I guess if you can't understand the note at the bottom of my posts that states advice is VOLUNTARILY given then you certainly won't understand something as complicated as paypal buyer protection / statutory rights. 

[Matus33]

Listen you little clown, how dare you insult me? Again what a cheeky and presumptuous response. The way you communicate on a personal level with trying to insult me ​​is infantile. Poorly informed and the inability to take a constructive attitude to a simple problem is not even worthy of the status of the voluntary adviser as you describe yourself, because only here you are embarrassing yourself and the company in question. Just from your communication and constant repetition of the same poem over and over again, inability to understand what I am trying to write to you and no constructive answer speaks volumes about your intellectual maturity. I have a college degree and have successfully discharged the debts of hundreds of people in bankruptcy proceedings, while you are venting your emotions here and commenting negatively on the posts of clients who are fighting for their money. Don't you understand that I am also fighting for your rights, so that the protection in question is extended to the basic principle of consumer protection?If you cowardly comment from under the pillow and defend injustice, nothing will change.

[kernowlass]

@Matus33 

Nah, you just don't understand. The same as you didn't understand that I don't work for paypal.

I understand you can't comprehend the information I gave you which was 100% correct.

So I'll make it easy for you, take note of the word OR.....

The protections offered by PayPal under this Buyer Protection Program do not override  any rights that you might have directly against a seller, including, for example, statutory rights to returns or repairs. If an issue arises with a seller you must try to resolve your issue directly with the seller before filing a claim under this Buyer Protection Program. If you are unable to resolve the issue you must choose whether to pursue a claim under this Buyer Protection Program or to pursue a claim with your card issuer or to rely on any other statutory rights that may be available to you. 

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