PayPal don't really care about evidence

[mihir_ruparelia]

Hello, This is more of a vent but curious to see if anyone else out there has had issues like this. I was selling a pair of shoes and had an enquiry, they asked for lots of pictures, which I sent to them, and after some days of back and forth they agreed to buy. They are some 300 miles away from us, so a collection or drop off is out of the question. They insisted on PayPal and I could not understand why, the outcome of this will explain. So after I sent the shoes via royal mail, I had a message from this person to say they are not happy the shoes squeak and wants a refund. I told her it was bought as seen to the best we could consider we aren't a shop or retailer. Now I have an ongoing claim with PayPal, they took it apon themselves to ask the buyer to send the shoes back but they sent it back to a gift address which actually wasn't even my home address. Kind of stuck now but it feels like PayPal are a scam company in itself. I phoned to complain and the guy just argued with me, the team dealing with claims don't call people I was told, and they have ignore my messages as a seller. Incredibly they can get away with it, but why do they always favour the buyer, without proper proof. Just a rant but curious has anyone experienced this before?

[kernowlass]

@mihir_ruparelia 

In the event of an item received but not as described dispute it is always one persons word against anothers.

As Paypal does not see the item in question then yes they often do find in favour of the buyer BUT the buyer normally has to return the item back to you (at their expense) before you have to refund.   

[Haapsalu]

Hello,
I had a similar experience where I got scammed by a buyer and PayPal did not care about evidence.
It was not even a word against word situation. I provided clear evidence that the broken item on the pictures sent by the buyer was different than the item I sent to the buyer. I made pictures of the item before sending it. The buyer had manipulated the pictures to make the impression that the item arrived broken.
Secondly the buyer did not send back the items, the return box arrived with totally different items, I made a video where I opened the return box. Non of this mattered to PayPal and the scammer got 350 euros from me.

It is black and white clear that he had sent PayPal manipulated evidence and that the buyer did not send back the correct items, which proves that the original items are still intact and did not broke during the transport. The scammer is using this scheme to get expensive items for free.

Is there any way I can appeal the claim that was closed in favour of the scammer?

[kernowlass]

@Haapsalu 

Unfortunately neither photos or videos are accepted as both can be digitally altered by either party, plus paypals buyer or seller protection policies only give the basics of protection. That does not stop you taking your buyer to a small claims court or similar (if you have that in your country) with that proof. 

[Haapsalu]

Thank you for the answer!

Well why give the seller then the illusion that he can give photo evidence when PayPal does not accept them, because they can be manipulated?

So just to be clear, on the example that happened to me – a buyer can make digitally altered pictures, so that the received item appears broken, present them as evidence and sellers evidence are not taken into account. Furthermore, the buyer does not have to send the item back, it is enough that he sends a package with wrong items. The sellers evidence that items are wrong are not taken into account.

This is why this scammer is taking advantage of PayPal, because he has realised this scheme works. By now I know that I am not the first one to be affected by his scam.

By the way I also gave evidence of the same item on my ebay page, there can be seen the item before sending it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404764300641

In the listing it can be shown that it was taken down on January 26 and the item was sent January 30 to the buyer. Why would I upload altered pictures to ebay before the buyer contacted me? I have 100% positive feedback on eBay, hundreds of happy customers giving feedback.

Secondly here is a official music record archive and selling site called “Discogs”, the record label can be seen here and it is like the label on my photos not like in the scammers altered picture.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1119020-Luim-Ambum-Idiofa-Embenjam-Esankas/image/SW1hZ2U6NTMzNzAyNDY...

None of this evidence mattered.

I am just curious what would you had done in my position, in the case where the buyer opened the claim. At the moment it seems the wisest way was to pay the thief quickly the money and not waste time on giving evidence in the PayPal claim?

[kernowlass]

@Haapsalu 

Didn't know they did give you that illusion to be honest.

Paypal doesn't take photo evidence from a buyer either. In the event of an item received but not as described dispute as paypal doesn't see the item in question they often find for the buyer BUT the buyer has to return the item back to the seller at their own expense first before being refunded.

Paypal equally can't know if the buyer is fibbing saying they returned the correct item OR the seller is fibbing saying they received the wrong item.

Paypal has nothing to do with Ebay so pictures on that site are meaningless to them, all Paypal provides is a payment method for 'some' sellers using Ebay.

Paypals customers are both buyers and sellers and they can't protect both equally someone always loses out.

They give you 'some' protection but its up to you to read up on what protection they do offer and then risk assess your transactions.

Unfortunately selling online means you are always going to have the odd transaction go awry.

Personally if a buyer is not happy I just tell them to return the item back for a full refund on receipt of the item back. If the mistake was mine I refund return postage costs as well. I have only once had another item returned but whilst annoying it does happen so I blocked the buyer and moved onward and upwards...lol

[Haapsalu]

Thank you for the answer!

I was advised to give photo evidence via "askPayPal" Twitter account when I asked help from them.

The buyer opened a PayPal claim and presented photos from a broken item (the photos were manipulated.)

I quite don´t understand what you mean by "PayPal does not take photo evidence"?

In the claim there is an option to give additional information and to upload photos....

I mean is this more trustworthy for PayPal if I don´t give photos and just tell them how the situation really was? This would be a word against a word situation. If the information I am giving to them has no value in their eyes, then why give the seller the opportunity to give additional info.

I am kindly asking for a moment to put yourself in my position:

I sold an item to a scammer who told lies to PayPal that the item arrived broken and did not send the item back to me.

As I have learned now - the only option in this case is to send the scammer back my money, since there is nothing I can present to PayPal that they take as serious evidence. Is this correct? (Photos, videos, my testimony and pictures from other sites are not trusted.)

As I learned the buyer does not have to send the item back. It is enough that he sends for example an empty box, so the tracking shows that I have received the box.

There is nothing that I can use as evidence to prove that the buyer did not send the items back in the box. Is this correct?