why is paypal so utterly awful to deal with?

[Patdude]

I'v ehap[ayd a paypal account for quite some time. I design watch faces for smart wtaches and paypal is where I get paid when people purchase them. I had money come in to my account and it has randomly been put on hold for no good reason other than I am not an "established seler" or similar **bleep**.

Im not selling ANYTHING on ebay. buyers purchase my designs and download them. there are no tracking numbers and there is no way for them to post positive remarks from EBAY as the transactions have NOTHING to do with EBAY.

Even though paypal see fit to charge me fees that are many times in excess of what a trading bank would charge, they still seem to insist that I am some sort of second class citizen and feel entitled to take my money and put it on hold for 21 days (I bet I dont get the interest they've earned on it when they release the funds either). 

Given how much money they charge for what is a pretty basic and highly automated survice, this is nothing short of obscene. I urge you all to look for altertives to this merry band of crooks.

[kernowlass]

@Patdude

Well the ''bleep'' that you so eloquently ask about is the new seller hold for all new sellers.

Not sure what Ebay has to do with it if you are not selling on Ebay.

Funds are released early if you provide tracking to show the item as delivered to the buyer, if you can't do so then you wait the full 21 days.

Paypal FEES are clearly stated, if you don't want to pay them then you do not have to use paypal.

And no you are not a 2nd class citizen you are a new seller and EVERY new seller goes through the new seller hold so not sure why you think you should be the exception?

And if you think its obscene then the answer is easy, close your paypal account and use another payment service. We have all been through the new seller hold and as its for buyer protection and we need buyers then we understand it.

It also weeds out poor sellers which is equally good for the rest of us.

[Patdude]

You say: Not sure what Ebay has to do with it if you are not selling on Ebay. 

I know but paypal seems to be so ebay centric that there are no other options

You say: Funds are released early if you provide tracking to show the item as delivered to the buyer, if you can't do so then you wait the full 21 days.

How can I provide tracking when my designs are downlaoded and paid for. I get paid by the watchface company via paypal - there is no tracking involved.

You say: Paypal FEES are clearly stated, if you don't want to pay them then you do not have to use paypal.

Clearly stated or not, the fees are outragiously high - most banks charge less and offer far better service.  Dont worry I am looking at alternatives as are the businesses I deal with.

You say: And no you are not a 2nd class citizen you are a new seller and EVERY new seller goes through the new seller hold so not sure why you think you should be the exception?

Just because everyone goes through it, doesnt make it right. This is backwards, officious and terrible service. I think everyone should be the exception and paypal needs to sort their dodgy business practices out. 

You say:  And if you think its obscene then the answer is easy, close your paypal account and use another payment service. We have all been through the new seller hold and as its for buyer protection and we need buyers then we understand it.

Dont worry I am in the process of working that one through. Most other alternative services charge lower fees and dont treat their new customers as criminals

You say: It also weeds out poor sellers which is equally good for the rest of us.

Which is fine for the fraction of the world using the open sewer that is ebay. Many people on paypal dont and yet are being penalised for it. 

[kernowlass]

@Patdude

Ebay and paypal are 2 completely separate companies, Ebay has their new seller payment hold policy and Paypal have their new seller payment hold policy.

As for tracking that is why i said it, if you can't provide tracking..........which you can't.............then you wait the full 21 days. Tracking just means that you get the funds released earlier.

I think that the Fees are not too bad compared with non-online auctions which are much higher.

And its not a dodgy practice, it is clearly stated about holds when you start to sell and in paypals user agreement when you open your paypal account.

By all means use other sites, unfortunately as paypal offer buyer protection most BUYERS want to use it and so go elsewhere by all means but you may not sell as well or make as much money.

Most folks on paypal don't what???  They ALL go through the new seller hold, it has NOTHING to do with Ebay and as i said most sellers are perfectly happy to get rid of the bad sellers so the rest of us get more happy buyers.

Byeee.

[Patdude]

>Ebay and paypal are 2 completely separate companies, Ebay has their new seller payment hold policy and Paypal have their new seller payment hold >policy.

That is not the point. Paypal are extremely ebay centric to the point where it is detrimental for non ebay customers

>As for tracking that is why i said it, if you can't provide tracking..........which you can't.............then you wait the full 21 days. Tracking just means that >you get the funds released earlier.

rest my case re paypals ebay crentric treatment of non ebay customers. That I am punished to protect ebay buyers who I am not selling to is just stupid. Not to mention that your above statement is also pretty arrogant too. in a free market such arrogance is rewarded with failure. 

>I think that the Fees are not too bad compared with non-online auctions which are much higher.

You are comparing apples with oranges. Other online alternatives have far lower fees and dont apply a monumentally stupid one size fits all mentality to all customers. For recieving payments  in multiple currencies, paypals fees are many times higher than what my bank charges for goodness sakes. If these higher fees translated into a better standard of service this would be fine, but the reality is that payal service is abysmal - just look at the number of negative posts online.

>And its not a dodgy practice, it is clearly stated about holds when you start to sell and in paypals user agreement when you open your paypal account.

Clearly stated in the small print?? Where is it clearly stated? You are clearly drinking the corporate kool-aid. 

>By all means use other sites, unfortunately as paypal offer buyer protection most BUYERS want to use it and so go elsewhere by all means but you may >not sell as well or make as much money.

Most BUIYERS from ebay?? once again you prove my point. 

>Most folks on paypal don't what???  They ALL go through the new seller hold, it has NOTHING to do with Ebay and as i said most sellers are perfectly >happy to get rid of the bad sellers so the rest of us get more happy buyers.

So treating all new customers as potential criminals makes it right? NO IT DOESNT - IT MAKES IT MONUMENTALLY STUPID

[kernowlass]

@Patdude

You keep blabbing on about Ebay but you are not selling on Ebay.

Its PAYPALS new seller hold for sellers that accept PAYPAL. An awful lot of buyers paying online (and not Ebay) prefer PAYPAL as they get a quick and easy buyer protection programme free of charge included.

So if YOU as a seller don't want your buyers to have protection and do not want to go through the new seller hold then DO NOT accept paypal.

Its not rocket science, just click on close account and go elsewhere. BUT my customers prefer paypal so i offer it, I went through the new seller hold and got my funds released on the whole within a week AS I SENT TRACKABLE. But as you can't you either WAIT or go and find another payment provider.

Matters not one jot to me, I am not the one whining about waiting a few days for payment.

[Patdude]

Say what you want. You are obviously a PayPal still which means you really don't have an independent perspective. Credit card companies also offer fraud protection but they don't chose to **bleep** over their customers. In a nutshell this is my experience and your inability to cope with it is doing you no favours. So please go ahead and rant back.

[kernowlass]

@Patdude

Yep thats original haven't heard that one before just because i disagree with your whinging. 

Yes c.c. companies give fraud protection BUT not as comprehensive.

Also its heck of a lot quicker and safer checking out with paypal than imputting your c.c. details everytime.

As a buyer i look for sellers that offer the paypal option when i checkout.

And no paypal is not good at everything, there is a lot they get wrong so calling me names because I support them in this instance is a bit sad on your part. I support the new seller hold YES. It weeds out poor sellers and that is good for the rest of us.

But as i said if you don't like it then don't use it.

[Patdude]

I bet you've heard it before.

Credit card companies offer fraud protection without treating their customers as criminals. I'd say that puts them well ahead of this overly complicated and god awful mess.

As tempting as it is, I've not called you anything other than a corproate shill, which you clearly are. That is not a namecalling, it is an honest assessment. 

That Paypal need people like you to fight for them on their forums instead of actually taking customer feedback and fixing the kafka-esque mess that is their bizarre business model speaks volumes. I hope other intending paypal customers read thins and run a mile from paypal. If I knew then what I know now I'd be giving your merry band of crooks a very wide berth. As it is Im propbably going call a good lawfirm and some consumer advocacy agencies plus some media. I think gizmodo would find this situation fascinating. 

Your ifd you dont like it, dont use it comment really does sum up the full-on and unbelivable arrogance of paypal. If history is anything to go by, this sort of arrogance will be repaid by customers the moment a better alternative comes along. Google wallet, sqaure and a dozen others who actually have customer service re knocking your door. Good luck with that.

[kernowlass]

@Patdude

Your silly name calling because you don't like to wait a little while for your money to comply with the new seller hold is pathetic, note, not name calling but an honest assessment    

As I said the new seller hold does not last long but it does weed out poor sellers and I am all for that which is why millions of other sellers go through it as well without whinging.