PayPal makes a mistake and the burden of proof is on me?!?

[rc792]

I recently paid an ebay purchase with PayPal using a credit card. I noticed that the amount charged to my credit card differed from the actual amount by $1.95. So I call up PayPal for the reason of discrepancy. I wasted 45 minutes of life getting a non-answer, all for a lousy $1.95.

Don't get me wrong. The PayPal customer service person was very nice and was trying hard to be helpful. And I understand they have a "playbook" they have to run through. But she couldn't give me an useful answer at all.

She asked me whether I recently changed my confirmed address: No. She puts me on hold. She returns, apologizes and asks me whether I recently added the credit card that I've used: No. I tell her I have used the same credit card since last year.

She puts me on hold. She returns, apologizes and tells me that $1.95 is PayPal's confirmation charge(?) for the credit card and will be reversed the next cycle. I tell her I've paid for 14 purchases from ebay on the credit card via PayPal since adding the credit card last year. Why is PayPal confirming my credit card all of a sudden? And why would PayPal tack on the confirmation charge on top of a transaction? Wouldn't the confirmation charge be a separate transaction?

She puts me on hold. She returns, apologizes and tells me that PayPal recently upgraded their system (which I took as admission of PayPal scr*wing up). Only way to get a refund is to fax my credit card statement to them and write a message explaining the situation. I tell her I am not going to fax my credit card statement containing information that is none of PayPal's business. She tells me that I can edit out sensitive information from the statement.

I tell her that I am not doing all that for a lousy $1.95. She says she understands but her screen shows that correct amount was charged. However, she implied that she was seeing the wrong amount as well but her hands were tied. I tell her that it was ridiculous that the customer has to bear the burden of proof and jump through hoops for an error made by PayPal. She then suggested that perhaps she can kick it up to a specialist who can look into the matter. I tell her to please do since I will put in a dispute with my credit card company if she doesn't.

She apologizes profusely for my inconvenience and we hang up. I find it absolutely asinine that PayPal cannot fix the error that it made. It does not make sense to me at all. I will give PayPal a couple of days to correct the mistake and I will simply put in a dispute with my credit card company. I don't have time and definitely will not jump through hoops for PayPal's mistake. 

[Temp20240121p]

Is anyone else out there getting sick of being robbed and abused by Pay Pal? I don't know why they think they are above the law....but guess what? The FTC is still out there, LETS MAKE SOME NOISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[surplusdealdude]

Could this be a seller from another country?

Perhaps they added to the shipping?  Added in a handling charge?

[rc792]

Yes, the seller is from another country. However, I don't see how the seller can add additional cost without it being shown in the PayPal.

The issue was that the PayPal transaction page shows that correct amount was charged to my credit card. My credit card, however, shows incorrect amount was charged from PayPal.

When I spoke to the customer service person, I got the impression that she was seeing the incorrect amount as well but she couldn't do anything about it. She said she can only go by what the PayPal transaction page was showing and it was showing the correct amount.

I find it hard to believe that PayPal is not aware of every red cent that goes in and out. Obviously, the amount requested didn't match the amount received. SInce the discrepancy favors PayPal, it's okay. I am sure if the discrepancy did not favor PayPal, the PayPal will be instantaneously on it.

[surplusdealdude]

Sellers can vary the amount of shipping at will - they only have to send an invoice.  SOME sellers abuse the privilege.

As well, I've seen sellers with their own checkout systems slip in a small handling charge that isn't mentioned in the listing.  Not ethical in my book, but most buyers won't complain for $2.00.

The issue was that the PayPal transaction page shows that correct amount was charged to my credit card. My credit card, however, shows incorrect amount was charged from PayPal.

I'm wondering if that's exchange on the different currencies.  If, for example, you are in Canada and the seller was in the States, that amount could easily be the exchange on US funds.

[rc792]

Regarding the ebay transaction, it seemed like a typical, straight forward transaction, not different from US seller transaction. The seller had 100% positive rating and seemed like a stand up seller with hundreds of transactions to its credit.

The payment was in US dollars so the effect of the currency fluctutation would occur when the seller converted my payment to his denomination. So that can't be the reason for extra $1.95. Even if it was, I believe the transaction page will show the amount as a exchange fee of some sort and the customer service representative would have told me so.

I firmly believe that it's a PayPal issue. As the customer service representative stated, PayPal went though a system upgrade and there has to be bugs. And I got a distinct impression that she also saw that the amount received from my credit card differed from the amount charged.

One thing that concerns me is that I do not wish to scr*w over the seller. The seller did not do anything wrong as far as I can tell. What would happen if I put a dispute with my credit card company? I am not disputing the transaction. I am disputing the amount charged for the transaction.

[surplusdealdude]

The payment was in US dollars so the effect of the currency fluctutation would occur when the seller converted my payment to his denomination. So that can't be the reason for extra $1.95

The US dollar is still worth more than the Canadian dollar, so any conversion would cost you more money.  The seller gets paid his funds in US funds. 

And the seller doesn't 'convert' it - your credit card is charged the USD amount and it 'converts' it to CDN funds, which will cost more.

I think that's where the problem is and that charge is for the additional funds required to make up the USD amount.

And I got a distinct impression that she also saw that the amount received from my credit card differed from the amount charged.

Well, that would be true if, for example $10.00 USD were charged to your Canadian credit card, then the CARD would show a debit of $10.50 CDN to make up the difference.

What would happen if I put a dispute with my credit card company?

Paypal will take it out of the seller's account.

[rc792]

I believe there is some misunderstanding. I am a US buyer who paid in US denomination. The foreign seller will receive in US denomination and will convert the funds into local currency. The seller's local financial institution may charge a fee for conversion, but to the seller. From my end, the transaction should be same as any domestic (US) transactions.

Now if I paid in foreign denomination, your scenario will hold. My credit card will convert foreign denomination into my local curreny (US dollars) and will charge exchange fee (and the amount charged will vary upon the exchange rate at the moment). Also, if the fee was related to currency exchange, my credit card will show it as a separate transaction as an exchange fee, not add it to the top of an existing transaction.

That's a shame about the seller getting scr*wed. Honestly, this issue has nothing to do with him/her. Maybe my credit card will not reverse the charge but request correct charge to PayPal when I present the PayPal page with correct transaction amount.

[surplusdealdude]

Well, in that case, I would think that the seller snuck in a $1,95 handling charge and didn't tell you.

I've seen it done, so it's possible.

And there are all sorts of reports about sellers being nice and helpful but messing with their customers just the same.

It' doubtful that it's a Paypal problem - at that stage, it's done with computers - they take the info from the seller and charge the CC of the buyer directly.

If there had been a problem, we'd be hearing about hundreds of thousands od similar issues and you're the only one I've run across ( and I get around).

[rc792]

"...at that stage, it's done with computers - they take the info from the seller and charge the CC of the buyer directly."

That's what so puzzling about it. And that's also why I don't see how the seller can sneak in a fee without PayPal knowing about it.

PayPal transaction page shows the correct amount was charged TO my CC. My CC shows that incorrect amount was charged FROM PayPal. 

All my other transactions before and after this particular transaction have been fine. Only thing different about this one is that the seller was a foreign seller.

By the way, I work in the IT industry and can tell you definitely that computers are not always perfect. I really think it must be a computer bug of some sort since customer rep said PayPal recently upgraded its systems.