A .30 Cent Refund Fee ????

AgencyCredit
Contributor
Contributor

We've tried to give PayPal a chance but enough is enough.  We process over $7000 monthly via Virtual Terminal.  We process about 3 refunds a year.  We just initiated a refund and PayPal has charged us .30 cents.  Why?  We received no notification of a new fee.  There is also no justification for it, as it's an entirely automated NACHA file-building process that requires no human intervention. 

 

We're done.  We recommend that as many of you as possible get off this sinking ship.    

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23 REPLIES 23

sandypurins
Advisor
Advisor

@DougOrleans wrote:

The same thing just happened to me.  Someone paid me $5, but it charged me $0.45, which isn't worth it (he could easily just pay me in person), so I immediately refunded it, but he only got $4.85 back and I ended up with -$0.30.  All I want is to simply undo the $5 transaction, which I never agreed to in the first place.


The sender received the full $5.00 refund... $4.85 was refunded from your PayPal account and the percentage fee portion (15 cents) was refunded from PayPal's funds.

 

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DougOrleans
Contributor
Contributor

I just got a $0.29 credit to my account.  Subject was "Fee refund for negative balance".  (I had 1JPY in my account, which got cashed out due to the $0.30 charge, leaving me with a negative balance of -$0.29.)  If the new policy is to not refund the $0.30 fee, then where did this credit come from?

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sandypurins
Advisor
Advisor

 


@AgencyCredit wrote:

We just initiated a refund and PayPal has charged us .30 cents.  Why?  We received no notification of a new fee.   


 

The 30 cent refund fee was announced in the Policy Updates section of PayPal's website.  Here's the text and link...

 

Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement
Effective Date: Aug 10, 2010

Refund Fee. Section 8.5 (Additional Fees) is amended to add a new refund fee. If you refund a Purchase Payment, we will retain the Fixed Fee portion of the Purchase Payment Fee. The buyer’s Account will be credited with the full Purchase Payment amount and the Fixed Fee portion of the Purchase Payment Fee will be deducted from your Account in addition to the amount of the refunded payment. The Fixed Fee will depend on the currency of the Purchase Payment and is listed in 8.4(c).

 

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/archive_policies_full&locale.x...

 

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adgraham
New Community Member

This is complete crap!  I've been a loyal customer of Paypal for a very long time. How do you charge someone for refunding money? I DID read the announcement and I don't like it.  That's a lot of nerve. I am looking for a new provider immediately. Paypal has a whole lot of nerve. If a customer is refunded completely and the transaction is voided I shouldn't be charged. There were a couple of transactions where the customer made a mistake and I gladly refunded the transaction. So why should I be penalized for that? I could see if I did refunds often, I don't.

 

Paypal, you're slipping! You're about to lose some customers. No wonder that other competitor stole Paypal's thunder with that block of ice gag. They deserved it. Unbelievable.

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cableman
Contributor
Contributor

I agree 100% with these statements.Why should anyone be charged for cancelling/refunding a payment.I have also been told the sender DOES NOT GET FULL AMOUNT REFUNDED.Just another paypal/ebay scam.Like they aren't getting rich enough.Enough is enough.

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sandypurins
Advisor
Advisor

@cableman wrote:

I have also been told the sender DOES NOT GET FULL AMOUNT REFUNDED.


When the "Issue Refund" link is used, the buyer receives the full amount.

 

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ricoinaz
Contributor
Contributor

The sender (purchaser) gets a refund, but the merchant is stuck paying fees. That's what is wrong here...

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ricoinaz
Contributor
Contributor

PayPal is making a ton of money by charging these fees. This is something they started in the later half of last year (2010). A recent post on this same topic can be found here: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Fees/Fees-and-more-fees-that-is-the-question/td-p/171024/jump-to...


Plus, why idoes it take 3-5 days to deposit your "own money" from PayPal to your bank, but takes a split second to withdraw money from your bank account to PayPal? The answer to that question is float! Float is the time it takes PayPal to take your money and put that money into your bank account. The longer this takes, the longer PayPal has to play with your money. Since none of the money PayPal makes is their own, they float your money as long as they can which results in profits for PayPal. For every day you leave your funds in your PayPal account, PayPal makes money off those funds. This is also how your bank also works. Keep that minimum average balance and your bank account is free. Go below that balance and the bank charges you. PayPal however charges a fee for everything. When you receive money, PayPal is there to collect that fee instantly. Then you withdraw and PayPal is there to slow down the deposit so they can collect off your money. But wait a minute. If you write your friend a check and he deposits that check in his account, is he charged a fee for that? When your employer does a direct deposit for your paycheck, does your bank charge you for that? NO! But PayPal will... So why does you bank not charge you for this? It's because they do not make those funds available to you instantly which means they too are floating this money. But at least your bank doesn't charge you a fee for that.



For vendors who accept credit cards this float time is generally not as long as it is with PayPal. At the end of the day you "batch out" your credit card transactions and within hours the money is deposited into your bank account and made available almost instantly. Different credit cards can take longer for the deposit, but once in your account the money is available. For example, American express can take 2-3 days on average before you receive your money, but once in your account, you can spend it. But generally your Visa and Mastercard is deposited same day. PayPal however is dragging their feet on every withdrawal you make which is generating PayPal a HUGE paycheck when you factor in the amount of money that is exchanged through PayPal. PayPal's average float of your money is in the billions!!! Wouldn't you like to have an average balance like that?


I have nothing against a business making money, but ethics do need to play a part in how you make your money. Ethically I feel PayPal is pushing the envelope and the reason might be because of a lack of regulation. We live in the digital world and the distribution of money is instant. PayPal makes you believe PayPal is safer than using your credit card, but that's not true. You are MUCH safer using a credit card to make purchases on-line. I've been ripped off several times using PayPal and now if I do use PayPal to make a purchase, I use my backup funding credit card to do so. This is probably the safest way to protect yourself. If you're using PayPal money that is in your PayPal account or bank, you are in a HIGH risk situation. Do yourself a favor and use a credit card. You are protected by your credit card, but at risk if using PayPal.


PayPal still has momentum because people are not educated about how PayPal works and how well protected you are using your own credit card. PayPal pretends their method is safer, but those who have already been burned by PayPal will argue this including myself.

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katting68
Contributor
Contributor

you process over $8000 a year  and your worried about $2      lmao      ok whatever

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ricoinaz
Contributor
Contributor

I process over $8,000 a month and I'm complaining about 78 cents! It's the principal rather than the amount. For every 78 cents PayPal charges for their mistakes it is 78 cents I'll pass down to the customer so if you're a customer of mine, you can expect to pay 78 cents more than you should have. Pricing is a delicate balance between what the customer is willing to spend and what your costs are to do business. There's a break even point and a point where what you are doing is profitable. As the cost of business increases, the cost of our products and services increase and ultimately those costs are always passed down to the consumer (inflation).

People complain every day about the price of Gas going up a lousy 5 cents a gallon. Is this any different? PayPal charging fees to refund the customer (specially fraudulent/disputed transactions) is an outrage. PayPal authorized the payment in the first place AND also held on to those funds (the float) before giving it back to the customer. And to top it all off they collect fees to do this refund.

PayPal does not collect fees from the purchaser because if they did, NOBODY would use PayPal to buy anything. PayPal sugar coats how they work and promotes that PayPal is the safest way to pay someone when in fact this is not true at all. Not only is it easy to setup a PayPal account (all you need is $1 and a quick bank account), but PayPal user accounts are hijacked everyday. So as long as PayPal can convince users this is the safest way to pay, we merchants will need to accept PayPal and all their fraudulent return fees as well. It's a FANTASTIC business model and it works and has PayPal laughing all the way to the bank.

I challenge PayPal to prove to me that PayPal is safer than using your credit card. NO WAY! If you dispute a charge on PayPal the first thing that happens is PayPal removes the funds from the merchant (the person who received the money). PayPal then holds on to those fees during this "dispute period" (float time where PayPal makes money). You then need to wait for PayPal to release those fees back to you which can take several days (more float). And this waiting period does NOT mean you will get a full refund either. In fact, I was ripped off by a merchant for a transaction of $600 and after almost two weeks of trying to get my money back, PayPal conceeded and gave me a lousy $300. If I had used my credit card I would have received an instant refund without any questions or a waiting period. Bank of America for example states this:

 

Bank of America

 

You’re not responsible for any fraudulent charge. Guaranteed.

We’ll credit any fraudulent charges made with your debit or credit card back to your account as soon as the next business day.

Our $0 Liability Guarantee is featured on all Bank of America® consumer debit and credit cards.

Is PayPal any safer than this? �

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