Empty Box Scam

[slimtim]

Hi, I need some advise.

We sent a customer a box of produicts to the value of £380 through our online shop.

They recieved it then simply opened a dispute with paypal stating 'Ebay purchase, empty box'.

They didn't buy of ebay and all the tracking shows there were no issues in transit. He later claimed the box was intact with no damge and sent some bogus images of our box empty with a couple of bricks in.

Obviously we disputed the case, but within 24 hours Paypal had refunded the buyer and the case was closed. I tried appealing the decision. But the case just closes again in favour of the buyer.

How and why do they do this when the buyer is blatantly lying. I've just checked the help area and it seems paypal give a step by step guide for how to win a claim or make a police complaint which 'm guessing this person did as they already emailed to say this as if they knew the procedure already.

We ahve been a long standing customer with paypal, a company that in fees alone have probably taken around £100000 in commision from our sales.

So my question is why do they just close it in favour of the buyer? when blatantly they have lied, but more frustratingly treat us with so much distain they will not even speak to us to tell us why they keep closing the case.

Seriously disgusted with Paypal after this episode.

[kernowlass]

@Jlrhino

Hmmm seems more like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It does not matter what evidence you provide, you may well have sent the item with the correct weight and postage but that does not mean that the buyer received it or that it was not stolen en route.

And if you received an empty box would you not want a refund? Or would you be happy if the seller just said ''sorry no refund because I posted it ok''.

When you are a seller you have to accept the odd bad transaction, paypal can't view what you sent OR what the buyer received so one party is always going to be unhappy...........it happens.

I tend to think that the money I have made by using paypal has more than offset the odd bad transaction.

But if you don't want to use them anymore then no problem but you may struggle with buyers as buyers love paypal because of buyer protection and its their favourite way of paying, and I for one want buyers.

[Jlrhino]

to 99.9% of all people, the item i sold has zero value.  in my situation there are only 2 scenarios.  1. the buyer is lying to get something free.  2. someone neatly opened a package to take something of almost no value, then neatly repacked the package with other stuff, had the package re-sealed, and then made sure the package got to the buyer.  if someone really wanted the item they would have just stolen the whole package and forgone all the other trouble.

cmon man.  i dont sell a lot of stuff so its not like ill make up for this in volume.  if this happeded to you a few times i believe you would feel different.  now that i know that paypal will always favor the buyer in these situations i will no longer be a seller.  

[ZM76]

Paypal are constantly advertising guarantees and promoting protections to both buyers and sellers, the ones for sellers are all bullsh*t. There are no seller protections, they ask for you to ensure you send to the correct verified address and send via an insured postal method however will side with the buyer.

They invest heavily in methods and processes to make taking money easier than ever, however cant spend a moment to help close off this empty box scam or make people aware that they may fall vicitim to this and there will be nothing to help you.

There should be some smart lawyers somewhere who can take paypal to court for advertising seller protection that does not hold up.

Disgusted with Paypal

[kernowlass]

@ZM76

No protection is ever 100%, Paypal buyer protection and seller protection are like your credit card they give you 'some' protection but its up to you to risk assess your own transactions.

If as a seller you get the occasional bad or fraudulent buyer then surely that is to be expected, we all get them at some time or another.

If someone says they have received an empty box then no one can prove otherwise.

[AndyJM]

I have recieved an empty box buying through reverb.com. I think buyers and sellers need to be objective here. From PayPal's perspective there can be 3 possibilities: Buyer is scamming seller Items stolen in post Seller is scamming buyer. Having had this experience, If I sell anything of value via ebay etc in the future I'm 100 % going to photo document the despatch process as I now photo document unboxing. Secondly, what does the law state? In the UK I believe the responsibility is the sellers to ensure safe delivery.