Non Tangible Goods Software Sales - SELLER PROTECTION

[Madmikew]

Is there a way in buy now or any other order form that I can set a setting to non tangible item?

LIKE MAYBE

non_tangible = 1;

software_sale = 1;

SOMETHING???

I sell e-commerce and auction software and have been for years.

Until recently I hardly ever had a dispute or claim.

Recently people are buying the software, then having me install on their website, then immediatly they come up with some bogus claim.

Sometimes they copy and delete the program and claim it was never received, other times they claim not as described.

Either way they open a claim as soon as they have the files in their possesion.

Now my Paypal account funds get tied up until eventually Paypal rules in my favor because it was a non tangible item.

I mean why do my funds get tied up for a long time before Paypal can see that it was for software and deny the claim.

I think the Visa/Mc people must be refunding them after they are denied by Paypal.

So it looks like people just get the software free in the end and the seller has to wait 30 days to get paid.

Surely we can avoid this with a simple non_tangible_item form field or something...

[profdata]

There is not buyer or seller protection for intangable items.

SO those buyers are filing chargebacks with their cc companies or filing unauthorized transactions with paypal.

[Madmikew]

I understand that.

That's exactly my point.

Paypal does not offer seller or buyer protection on non tangible goods.

So why allow disputes on sales/purchases of non tangible items in the first place.

Because they don't know it was non tangible at time of sale, that's why..

So why not let Paypal know up front that it is a non tangible item sale.

Then if they know that is the case they could block/stop the dispute before it happens.

Would be as simple as a form field in purchase form:

tangible_item = 0;

OR

tangible_item = 1;

If tangible_item = 0;

Then when they go to pay, they get a warning saying they will have no buyer protection for this purchase.

Disputes for this transaction limited/unavailable..

As it is now buyerssellers may be told by Paypal that it IS eligible for Buyer/Seller protection when that is NOT really the case.

This happens because Paypal does not know it was non tangible until AFTER a dispute is filed.

Shouldn't they already know that??

Easy enough for us to tell them up front in form field right.

OR

If tangible_item = 1;

Then when they go to pay, they get a message saying they will have buyer protection for this purchase.

[profdata]

You are not getting the point.

If a buyer contacts their credit card company and files a chargeback, paypal can'r stop them. 

Most of the time (99%) the cc company rules in favor of their card holder.

So why not let Paypal know up front that it is a non tangible item sale.

Then if they know that is the case they could block/stop the dispute before it happens.

A paypal dispute does nothing, but advise the buyer and seller to try to work out the problem.  When the buyer or seller escalates it to a claim it automatically closes out, no action taken .

Then when they go to pay, they get a warning saying they will have no buyer protection for this purchase.

here is an idea how about they read the user agreement, the one they said they read when the clicked on the I agree

[Madmikew]

Well we cant force them to read the agreement for one thing.

And they are aware of the agreement for another.

These are people who are knowingly trying to steal my software by filing bogus claims.

Or people who expect waay to much and do this deliberatly when they dont get their way with something.

They are going right to Paypal and filing disputes immediatly after receiving the files.

This isnt coming from ccard co's (yet at least)

These people know Paypal will rule in my favor and are deliberately doing this knowing that Paypal will tie up my funds for God knows how long.

Here are some quotes from some of them:

"Well I will just file a claim at Paypal and let them decide'

"Give me a refund or I will file a dispute with Paypal"

"I dont know why you are so angry, Paypal will give you your money eventually"

I know we cant stop it if they try from the ccard co level but this is happening right here at Paypal.

It should be easy enough to do something at this level I think.

If Paypal knew it was a non tangible item up front, they could easilly rule in my favor immediatly rather than up to 30 days later. They could say "We told you at the time of sale that this was a non tangible item and is not covered under Paypal buyer protection policies" Therefore your claim is denied..

Paypal actually encourages this by telling BOTH parties that the transaction IS eligable when it is NOT.

Why do they do that? Shouldnt they know that this sale is NOT eligable and say so right up front?

This is not a tall request and makes a lot of sense.

This is a real problem. I cannot run a business if I have to wait 30 days to get paid because Paypal stalls the payment at the drop of a hat on a non covered sale..

[Madmikew]

And why can we not have a button for services payments?

Services payments should also not be covered.

I also do custom scripting.

I get paid up front for custom jobs.

I work my butt off for 50 hrs, and only charge for 10 of them.

Mostly because they expect more and more, and add more and more to the wish list as you go along working and I try to accomodate them.

Well if you inform that they will need to make another payment if they want more work done, they get all unhappy and file a not as described claim at Paypal.

Now Paypal ties up my account for this too.

It's like a big risk to accept Paypal for work performed or software sales.

2 things could help stop the problem at least at the Paypal level.

Non tangible item buy now button

Services Payment button

If a payment is made using either then Paypal should be very strict about opening disputes like these.

[bluntmanchronic]

Why don't you understand Paypal is not going to change their policies or make additional options just for you!  Stop selling intangible goods/services on Paypal and expecting any protection, you obviously read the user agreement, you should know better.

[Madmikew]

I am not asking for seller protection moron.

And there is no reason why I shouldnt be able to use Paypal for non tangible items or services.

Paypal WANTS to be the payment solution for everybody and everything right?

So why not make it possible for everybody to use it for their payment solution with as little risk as possible,

'They say they fight the credit co's as hard as they can right.

Well wouldnt it be nice to take some ammo to the fight.

They could easilly declare thet the buyer knew up front that they were not covered for this transaction and they knew it.

CASE CLOSED BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS

The local taxi company accepts paypal for rides.

Under current policy someone could file a bogus dispute on them after getting a ride.

I can hear it now, "there were ashes on the floor of the cab so my $75 ride to the airport on the other side of the state should be free". I could have got in a different cab but I took the ride, now I dont want to pay for it and ashes was the only excuse I could find.

Now ubder current policy Paypal will open a clain and tie up the funds for up to 30 days.

WHY?

Why is that claim allowed at all since it is not covered by Policy anyway?

Seems rather stupid to me.

We should be able to let Paypal know that it is for non tangible items or services UP FRONT AT POINT OF SALE.

No reason not to...

Now tell me why that cannot be..

Imagine this:

Paypal is unable to open this claim for the following reason:

A: This was a non tangible item purchase and is not covered by Paypal's buyer protection policy. LINK TO POLICY HERE

B: This was a services payment and is not covered by Paypal's buyer protection policy. LINK TO POLICY HERE

Instead of this:

Paypal has tied up your funds on a bogus claim for a transaction that isnt evencovered.

There is no way we could have known ahead of time because we don't ask.

Give us up to 30 days to figure it out and you can then have your money..

Now wouldnt that be better...

[redpower]

---

@Madmikew wrote:

I am not asking for seller protection moron.

And there is no reason why I shouldnt be able to use Paypal for non tangible items or services.

Paypal WANTS to be the payment solution for everybody and everything right?

The reason is because you can't prove anything with non tangible items or services, and it sounds like you are asking for seller protection....

So why not make it possible for everybody to use it for their payment solution with as little risk as possible,

'They say they fight the credit co's as hard as they can right.

Well wouldnt it be nice to take some ammo to the fight.

They could easilly declare thet the buyer knew up front that they were not covered for this transaction and they knew it.

CASE CLOSED BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS

People can't open disputes for intangible items, they file chargebacks for unauthorized use, any because it is not a physical item, it can't be proved.

The local taxi company accepts paypal for rides.

Under current policy someone could file a bogus dispute on them after getting a ride.

I can hear it now, "there were ashes on the floor of the cab so my $75 ride to the airport on the other side of the state should be free". I could have got in a different cab but I took the ride, now I don't want to pay for it and ashes was the only excuse I could find.

That is a service, and not covered...

Now ubder current policy Paypal will open a clain and tie up the funds for up to 30 days.

WHY?

Why is that claim allowed at all since it is not covered by Policy anyway?

Seems rather stupid to me.

We should be able to let Paypal know that it is for non tangible items or services UP FRONT AT POINT OF SALE.

No reason not to...

Now tell me why that cannot be..

Imagine this:

Paypal is unable to open this claim for the following reason:

A: This was a non tangible item purchase and is not covered by Paypal's buyer protection policy. LINK TO POLICY HERE

B: This was a services payment and is not covered by Paypal's buyer protection policy. LINK TO POLICY HERE

Yep, then they go to credit card company and say " I didn't do this" it's not a tangible item, so it cannot be proven to be authorized. DONE

Instead of this:

Paypal has tied up your funds on a bogus claim for a transaction that isn't evencovered.

There is no way we could have known ahead of time because we don't ask.

Give us up to 30 days to figure it out and you can then have your money..

Now wouldn't that be better...

Provide a tracking number and proof of shipping and funds aren't on hold...oh wait its a intangible item so you can't...

[bluntmanchronic]

You buy/sell intangible good/services you take all the risk. 

When someone files a dispute through paypal nothing happens. No matter what Paypals policy is it wont effect the ability for a cardholder to file a chargeback and paypal is going to do a **bleep**ty job of fighting on your behalf whether it is a digital good/service or not.

You walk around with a sign on your back that says "Kick Me" and expect not to get kicked, good grief.

Well that covers everything.