Chargeback Settlement Procedure

[StraightShooter]

I sold 2 tickets for a horse race to a ticket broker, around 10 days before the race, one of the horses dropped out of the race and this guy wanted his money back. He's a ticket broker, he knows how all this works. It happens. So, he files a claim to ebay that he wanted a refund because the race had been cancelled. The race was not cancelled at all, but that was his claim. On the claim that he stated to eBay that he wanted to return the tickets. ( It was clearly stated on the auction "No Refunds"). He made the statement "I have tickets in hand". eBay and PayPal ruled in my favor.

All is well until 7 weeks later I get word that his credit card company back-charged the transaction. I provide PayPal documentation of proof of delivery again and also provide them the statement in eBay where he wrote "I have the tickets in hand". I provide this documentation to PP and two weeks later I'm notified that the CC company reverses the transaction in the buyers favor and PayPal charges my account.

How this could happen is beyond me and I have resubmitted the documentation again to PayPal. I just don't have a lot of faith that as obvious as it is, that I will be represented well to the CC company. People with experience please let me know. Does PP really go to bat and represent a person that is 100% in the right? I'm just not comfortable because it should have never gotten to this point. His claim was "Did not have a signed proof of delivery" and he stated to eBay that he had tickets in hand and would ship them back to me.

Is there a phone number for PayPal where I can talk to someone? This has me squirming a little bit.

[surplusdealdude]

I provide this documentation to PP and two weeks later I'm notified that the CC company reverses the transaction in the buyers favor and PayPal charges my account.

That's a provisional reversal - the real decision is about 75 days away yet.

Credit card companys always do a provisional reversal and then take the time to make up their minds.  You may win yet.

People with experience please let me know. Does PP really go to bat and represent a person that is 100% in the right?

I've had a chargeback where I sent it to a different address than Paypal specified ( at the buyer's request).  I didn't think I had a chance, but I won it.

I think Paypal does a credible job on this, but it's really up to the CC company - they're making the decisions on this.  I think they try to be fair to everyone.

His claim was "Did not have a signed proof of delivery"

Was the order over $250, price+ shipping?  Unless it was, he wouldn't have much of a case.  As well, the $250 issue is strictly a paypal requirement - the cc company is going to rely on the fact that he admitted that he had the tickets.  At least, that's the way I would rule if I were making the decision.

Is there a phone number for PayPal where I can talk to someone? This has me squirming a little bit.

There is, under the "Contact us" link in your account, but I doubt that it will reassure you much.

The drones that answer the phones seem to have the collective wisdom of wheat and they'll just spew policy quotes at you.

My guess is that you'll be okay, but my guess is as good as the next guy's and the next guy isn't making the decision - the credit card company is.

I think you'll just have to wait it out, unfortunately.  Don't obsess about it - it's in the past and there's nothing you can really do about it now.

You've made your best shot, now let the chips fall where they may.

[tmac2]

Can you shed some light on this chargeback policy for me.  I am a Laker Season ticket holder and always sell tickets on EBAY for games I do not attend.  I have never had a problem until recently.  During the playoffs, a buyer won tickets from me for 930.00.  After she won them, she sent me an email stating that she had paid through paypal and to send the tickets to a specific email address.  Her emails to me (3 of them) and the phone number she called me from were all verified information with both paypal and ebay.  When the game was over, she contacted paypal and said that she recieved and email indicating that she had won the tickets, but that she did not bid on the item.  She told them it was unauthorized.  i sent paypal all of the information via fax, including the emails to me.  It did not take their investigators long to realze she was trying to commit fraud, and they immediately ruled in my favor.  Two days later, she filed a charge back with her credit card company and know paypal is saying that I owe them 930.00.  What recourse do I have, when it is obvious that this girl is trying to commit fraud?

[surplusdealdude]

I'd call the stadium and see if they have some way of verifying that the tickets were used.

Then I would call the police and lay a fraud charge.

As for the chargeback, the best proof you could have to show that it's fraudulent would be a statement from a third party ( the stadium), that the tickets were redeemed.

Be aware that the CC companies almost always find in favour of their customer initially, then they take up to 75 days to make a final determination.  I would include the fact that charges have been laid in an attempt to show the little weasel that things can get a LOT worse - sometimes they back down.  I would not drop the charges afterwards, though.

[mickeyac1]

HA HA HA  If you get your money back I will be  110% surprised here. The other guys who responded are a joke and giving you false hope. Paypal does not go to bat for you at all. You go to bat for yourself by replying  to the chargeback. go to my seller feedback on ebay k93cop5460 on ebay 100% and look at the 2nd feedback fron the top of the list,, That guy bought  my laptop,  LEAVES GOOD FEEDBACK, and everything and tracking was already on paypal as soon as I shipped as I always do when I sell something So tracking,and feedback saying good item and then months later files a chargeback and I send the same info... months later guess what happens,, they give him my money and my laptop and I got a bill from paypal saying I owe them $260 and extra $10 for them doing the chargeback on top of it LOLOLOL .. CASE CLOSED..... Go look at paypal rules and guidelines you agreed to,, they will tell you the same thing they told me when they charge your account for the chargeback,,, they can sumbit your reply to the complaint but the final decision rests with  the CC company and they can and will do nothing.... If you or anyone has doubt please message me I will show you

[HK123]

This is awful that Paypal is allowing this. It is new to me and now I research and hear so much about it. Problem is the crooks are taking advantage of it and we are SOL.

Sorry you were taken as well.  I don't know what options we have other than if I sell something large I may just decide if I want to risk a cashier check, they are not always foolproof either.

[surplusdealdude]

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@HK123 wrote:

This is awful that Paypal is allowing this. It is new to me and now I research and hear so much about it. Problem is the crooks are taking advantage of it and we are SOL.

Sorry you were taken as well.  I don't know what options we have other than if I sell something large I may just decide if I want to risk a cashier check, they are not always foolproof either.

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If you're selling something large, it's personal pickup, cash on delivery OR a wire transfer from a bank.  Those are the only guaranteed forms of payment.

However, you can protect yourself on most sales IF YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

Read the User agreement - find out what you're protected for and what you're not protected for.

Use delivery or signature confirmation properly and only ship to the address on the payment advice from paypal.

You CAN win credit card chargebacks if you provide the correct information.  I have.  ALWAYS fight the chargeback.

[StraightShooter]

Only problem is we are talking about $266 worth of chips here, to let them fall where they may.

Three more questions please:

1) Can I discuss this transaction with the CC company?

2) I thought PP provided "seller protection" against cases such as this. It's never been mentioned in any correspondence.

3) Does PP really present your case to the CC company, or just have the attitude "whatever"?

Most of the time people always think they are right and being "roughshod". This is truly the case here. It's in black and white. He wrote "I have in hand" and then files a claim that he didn't receive.

If fraud is this easy to pull off on eBay and PayPal, it's like free shopping. Just order, let UPS drop it off while your at work, and file a claim that you didn't receive a "signed" proof of delivery. I mean, it can't be this easy. eBay and PP would be busted broke very quickly if only .05% of the people did it.

[surplusdealdude]

1. No, the credit card company doesn't want to talk to you.  The transaction, as far as they're concerned, is between them and paypal.

2. Seller protetion may apply here - I'm not familiar enough with ticket sales to venture an opinion - you could call paypal and ask them about that.

3. I was happy with paypal's response, so I would say yes to this - paypal doesn't like getting chargebacks any more than you do and they like to win them - it's a credibility issue, I guess.

The issue of the "signed" delivery is a poser, though.

Technically, you shoul;d have got signed delivery, since the item+price was over $250.  That may  disable your seller protection - paypal is really picky about stuff like that.

OTOH, ebay and paypal believed you, even in the face of that mistake.  I would think that the CC Company would make the same finding.

The CC Companies aren't interested in allowing their buyers to defraud sellers, either - it hurts their credibility with merchants and nobody likes a scammer.  So I think they try to be fair.

[StraightShooter]

Thanks for your input. I did talk to a specialist at PP this morning and I am pleased to report that she was very kind and helpful. She also stated that there were no guarantees, but she would feel good about the possibility of this being covered by PP protection since he made the statement that he "had tickets in hand". Although she was very non-committal regarding the protection, in reading between the lines, I was encouraged.

Anyway, just a waiting game now, and that's fine as long as this falls in the right direction at the end of the day. I was encouraged with the tone, willingness, and the time she spent with me.

Thanks again for your replies.

Jeff