45 day dispute limit

[oldguv]

Paypal have decided that there is nothing they can do for me as I failed to open a dispute within the 45 day time limit. Despite the seller sending messages begging me to be patient and that the item may be delayed because of extra security after the bombs in packages . Now because of the Christmas New Year celebrations I open a dispute 3 days late, Paypal say they can't help. Some way to treat their customers!

[grayjay]

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@gama_36 wrote:

So, the suggestion is to open a dispute on day 44 if the item has not arrived? That would be a headache for both, the seller and the buyer, and I do not think it is enough time to delivery.

Some years ago (I think it was on 2008) I bought some items from China and Japan, on economy shipping, the took up to 60 days for delivery, (back on 2008, the limit days on dispute was 90 days and no 45), so, I did not have the open a dispute for these items, because the time limit to open a dispute is long enough.

Now that it is 45 days the limit, should I open a dispute a dispute every time I buy from other countries across the ocean? That it is really a headache, that can be avoid, I think the time limit should be at least 60 days and not 45 days.

Let us see an example... I buy from 10 different sellers, each one is located across the sea, so, because of this should I open 10 disputes? is that even possible? Also, it does not generate bad reputation for the seller? (because it was not fast enough) or bad reputation to the buyer? (because it was not patient enough to wait a bit more).

If that is the case, I feel sorry for the sellers, because they have to manage too many disputes, in the other hand, i feel sorry for the buyers, because they wait a bit more than 45 days, and trust the seller, but never recieve the items neither the refund.

90 days maybe was too long time, 45 days is too short, I think 60 days should be enough for both the sellers and the buyers.

Any other suggestion for open 10 disputes at the same time? It will be really painful...

Thank goodness I am reading the limit now is 45 days, so, I can prepare myself to open some disputes on day 44, because I know more than 1 items will take longer than those 45 days.

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What's the big deal with filing a dispute in 44-45 days?  You CAN ALWAYS CANCEL IT WHEN THE ITEM ARRIVES!

In reality, the entire claims process gives the buyer up to 95 days to deliver the item:

Besides the 45 days, the seller has another 20 days before you need to escalate the dispute to a claim.  And then after that, Paypal may take up to 30 days to make a decision -- especially if the item comes from overseas.  So in total, the process gives the seller 45+20+30=95 days to deliver the product YOU paid for.

I don't know about you, but 95 days (over 3 months) is plenty of time to ship an item even from the far reaches of the earth. And let's face it, if the seller knows he can't get it to you in 3 months, then whose fault is that?

And like I said, up until Paypal makes the final decision, the buyer can always cancel the dispute/claim. 

What is the harm in protecting your rights as a buyer?  

I find the most sellers do understand the protection process.  When I don't receive my item by the 40th day, I inform the seller that on the 45th day, I will be starting  dispute to preserve my rights under Paypal buyer protection.  And that if I do not receive the item within 20 days after that, I will escalate it to a claim.  I also tell them that if I do receive the item, I will cancel the dispute/claim.   Sounds pretty fair to me. 

Most honest sellers understand that this is the "contract" when using Paypal.  

I don't undertand why any buyer,would you give up their rights to Buyer Protection, especially if you have all that time to cancel your claim IF the item actually arrives within 95 days?

[gama_36]

I have no problem opening one dispute, or two, or ten, or more, at the same time, the problem here is for the buyers that trust the seller a bit, and specially, the sellers, because they will need to attend so many disputes, let us see an example:

"A seller from China or Hong Kong offers only cheap economy, from free to 2 USD, and the ships to worldwide, but, the seller has 300 sellings in one month, and 200 are for North America, Center America and South America, let us say 100 of those items are delayed, and will arrive in more than 45 days, so, they need to manage 100 disputes at the same time? It will be a real headache for the sellers, investigating the location of the 100 items that are not arrived, and can be easily avoid waiting a bit more to open a dispute"

The above is just an example, but some seller sell many more than this example, and I consider it a waste of time for the seller, and the consequences.

Actually, I have already seen a consequence, I was watching some items from a vendor in China, and 2 or 3 three days after I start to watch the items I was considering to buy, suddendly, the shipping description says it does not ship to North America anymore, so, I asked the seller why, and he answere was, because buyers are not patient enough to wait for the items, and they open a dispute (back then, I thought the limit to open a dispute was 90 and no 45 days). This just happened one month ago.

Now that I am reading this, and the limit of days being 45 days, I understand why the buyers open so many disputes, for protection, and I will do the same, I only feel sorry for the sellers in my case, and I feel sorry for the buyers that trust a seller and do not open a dispute on time, and never recieved the item.

I think paypal should do some polls to the sellers, and the buyers, about what they do think from the 45 days limit. Also, another poll for the sellers asking how many of them has changed the shipping countries, because they have to manage so many disputes. And finally, paypal should look in the records how many disputes are opened because the item never arrive, and how many of them end up cancelling the dispute, because they recieved the item in the period when the dispute was open.

Some polls and records should answer my points, and the other buyers points, and the sellers points.

[grayjay]

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@gama_36 wrote:

I have no problem opening one dispute, or two, or ten, or more, at the same time, the problem here is for the buyers that trust the seller a bit, and specially, the sellers, because they will need to attend so many disputes, let us see an example:

"A seller from China or Hong Kong offers only cheap economy, from free to 2 USD, and the ships to worldwide, but, the seller has 300 sellings in one month, and 200 are for North America, Center America and South America, let us say 100 of those items are delayed, and will arrive in more than 45 days, so, they need to manage 100 disputes at the same time? It will be a real headache for the sellers, investigating the location of the 100 items that are not arrived, and can be easily avoid waiting a bit more to open a dispute"

The above is just an example, but some seller sell many more than this example, and I consider it a waste of time for the seller, and the consequences.

Actually, I have already seen a consequence, I was watching some items from a vendor in China, and 2 or 3 three days after I start to watch the items I was considering to buy, suddendly, the shipping description says it does not ship to North America anymore, so, I asked the seller why, and he answere was, because buyers are not patient enough to wait for the items, and they open a dispute (back then, I thought the limit to open a dispute was 90 and no 45 days). This just happened one month ago.

Now that I am reading this, and the limit of days being 45 days, I understand why the buyers open so many disputes, for protection, and I will do the same, I only feel sorry for the sellers in my case, and I feel sorry for the buyers that trust a seller and do not open a dispute on time, and never recieved the item.

I think paypal should do some polls to the sellers, and the buyers, about what they do think from the 45 days limit. Also, another poll for the sellers asking how many of them has changed the shipping countries, because they have to manage so many disputes. And finally, paypal should look in the records how many disputes are opened because the item never arrive, and how many of them end up cancelling the dispute, because they recieved the item in the period when the dispute was open.

Some polls and records should answer my points, and the other buyers points, and the sellers points.

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I hear what you are saying that for some sellers, 45 days isn't enough time to ship a product.   Let's face it, you can have all the polls in the world you want, but at the end of the day, Paypal has both the seller's and the buyer's proverbial balls in their hands -- as there is no other viable alternative to them, so they can be pretty much be arbitrary on their rules.  The best that can happen is that enough sellers (and buyers) petition Paypal to extend it to 60 days and they actually listen.

In the meantime, Paypal's policy is VERY CLEAR with regards the 45-day window.  That said, BOTH buyers and sellers know the rules in place and by using Paypal, should abide by its rules.  It is pointless to complain about something when you signed up and checked the box that said you agree to the terms and conditions to using Paypal.  

If you are a seller that can't guarantee that you can deliver that product to a customer overseas within 45 days, then guess what, don't sell overseas.  That's not a hard concept to grasp.  Why set yourself up to lose claim?

If you are a buyer that wants to retain your rights as a consumer and don't want to get ripped off, file a dispute before 45 days are up and go through with the claims process UNTIL the buyer comes through.  Keep the seller informed and let them know that you are going to follow Paypal's rules -- and that you will gladly cancel the dispute if the item arrives.  

While it is admirable for a buyer to be trusting of a seller -- remember that it is YOUR hard earned money.  Tell the seller, sorry, its not personal, it is business.   Don't be a doormat and be firm when dealing in business and YOUR money. 

[El_SuperBeasto]

The 45 day limit is way to short in case of preorders: I pre-ordered an item in July and it came out in November. When I hadn't received any shipment by December, I tried to communicate with the seller via mail: no response at all of course, because the 45 day window had passed so I couldn't file a dispute or claim via PayPal. All PayPal do, is say that they can't open a dispute (of course they can, but they won't for some shady reason) and then encourage me to contact the seller (as if I hadn't tried that several times before). I suppose the only action that I can still take, is to contact my creditcard company and see if they can cancel the transaction.

[kernowlass]

Its your choice to buy a pre-order item and use paypal.

You know the timings for the disputes so you know the risk you decided to take.

[rts85]

The only way to pay for most pre-orders I've seen is by paypal.  While the 45 day limit is reasonable, if you do a lot of ordering it's pretty easy to let one or two slip by.  Normally it's because the seller forgot to ship is a flake or whatever.  I've found that in most of these cases the seller will try to make it right.  If not, though, you're **bleep**.  I don't need an "advisor" to tell me that 45 days is enough time.  I haven't read up on the reason for the 45 day limit, but it would be nice if they increased the time to 60 days or more.

[sazcass]

I bought a service using paypal as my payment option.  It was a training course and recruitment service.  I have it in writing from the course provider that if no developments have happened for me in terms of new employment within 6 months then he will give me a full refund.  Now the 6 months have passed and there have been no developments.  So I've emailed and text the guy several times requesting my refund but no reply from him.

As the 45 day limit would not apply in my circumstances, and I have written proof of an agreement to refund....surely paypal can ensure I get my refund???

Please Help 😞

[kernowlass]

Paypal don't cover services.

As your dispute would have been before 17th June then the 45 day ruling would still apply and you are way too late.

[adel_314]

I have now been caught twice by dishonest Chinese sellers who clearly have not posted the package.   Some of the excuses are bizzare and childish but the real problem is PayPal's behaviour.  .  PayPal are not listenting and do not seem to appreciate that sometimes overseas delivery takes much longer than delivery within the the US.  

Also, to be fair to the seller, you have to assume he or she are honest and that the package is on the way - and waiting gives the seller the beneift of the doubt.

I have now begun to raise a disputes at 3 weeks (24 days).  It seems to be the only way to protect yourself .

[kernowlass]

You obviously do not read the paypal email updates sent to you or the info on the paypal site.

Since June you now have up to 180 days to open a dispute.

So i guess paypal did listen.